Jnorm888 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Who wants to debate Baptismal regeneration vs faith regeneration only? [url="http://www.holycultureradio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4820"]debate[/url] INLOVE Jnorm You must know your stuff and know your sources, and follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 This will be good. The folks there know there stuff as well. Will it be conducted here or there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Biggity bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 i'll debate it. shall we do it here? i agree to the rules and will, of course, be taking the affirmative (baptism IS regenerative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I think over there would be cool. the peeps won't come over yonder to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 i thought jnorm wanted to debate it. or was it just his idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnorm888 Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 (edited) [quote name='phatcatholic' post='1003455' date='Jun 11 2006, 08:53 PM'] i thought jnorm wanted to debate it. or was it just his idea? [/quote] No, I believe in Baptismal regeneration. Someone at the other forum wanted me to debate the issue, but I'm not that sharp on the issue when it comes to seeing how it fits or connects with the doctrine of "regeneration preceeding faith" I don't know what Augustine meant or was trying to get at when he was argueing with Pelagius about "grace/regeneration preceeding faith" You see It seems that Augustine had an Adult in mind and it seems that this grace was abstract, so if this is true then how does that fit or connect with Baptism being regenerational? I know Augustine believed in Baptismal regeneration. I just don't know what he was thinking in how the two worked. Infact, Luther believed in the two....the same with Thomas Cranmer. I just don't know how. You know, .....Adam sinned therefore mankind is unable to choose God or do anything good unless he is regenerated first and after that he can believe in God and repent, and be Baptised. Are there two "regenerations"? One that preceeds faith and one at Baptism? You see this is what I don't know. I know that grace preceeds any and every human action. I just don't know how the two connect or relate. Also The belief of Baptismal regeneration is not too popular with alot of American English speaking Protestants and psuedo-Protestants(2nd or 3rd wave splinter groups from mainline Protestantism) And with the idea of Regeneration preceeding faith I can understand why the idea of Baptism being regenerating was dropped off or seen as unnecessary. And this is why I am not qualified to debate the issue because I'm confused myself. INLOVE Jnorm The via media doesn't work in every situation. Edited June 12, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 so, who wants to debate it over there? should i contact this person? is a thread already started or do i need to go over there and start my own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnorm888 Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 (edited) [quote name='phatcatholic' post='1003946' date='Jun 12 2006, 01:18 PM'] so, who wants to debate it over there? should i contact this person? is a thread already started or do i need to go over there and start my own? [/quote] I don't know yet, but I'm sure a few would come out the woodwork to give it a try. If you post I would post first in the general theology section. Then I would ask who would like to debate on the topic. If you draw anyone out then y'all would have to agree on the date of the debate. I tried to pull some out last night or early this morning but the site crashed around lunch time today and the post was lost....along with every post posted this morning. The debate would be a one on one debate....that's if it happens. Debates on other topics are being planned for mid or late July. alot of people overthere are scared to debate because you really have to be proffesional and I don't think any of us actually did it before. And those who debate must have done their homework, and that makes alot of people back down from doing it.....for alot of people want to post but don't want to research or get their hands and knees dirty. INLOVE Jnorm Some Protestants believe in faith preceeding regeneration while other Protestants believe in Regeneration preceeding faith. And then you have Protestants like myself who believe in regeneration preceeding faith and Baptismal regeneration, but I have trouble understanding what that means exactly when it comes to Adults who haven't been baptised as infants. Edited June 12, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 faith always preceeds baptism. for infants, it is the faith of the parents. for adult converts, it is the faith of the one being baptized. that said, i would rather not go looking for a debate, but if someone comes here, i'll play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnorm888 Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 (edited) [quote name='phatcatholic' post='1004430' date='Jun 12 2006, 11:06 PM'] faith always preceeds baptism. for infants, it is the faith of the parents. for adult converts, it is the faith of the one being baptized. that said, i would rather not go looking for a debate, but if someone comes here, i'll play. [/quote] understood, however, if you believe in Total inability(in which you do....because all Roman Catholics must believe it) then how does regeneration come to play? This is what I don't understand. Regeneration preceeds faith and faith preceeds Baptism. In other words. Because of original sin all mankind has total inability. Which means that noone can have faith in God until they are first regenerated by the Holy Spirit so that they can have faith in God. And then after having faith in God they are Baptised. What I don't understand is why must one be regenerated in order to believe only to be regenerated again at Baptism? Is there a difference between the two regenerations? And why must we call both "regeneration"? hmmmm, if my Protestant lingo is making it hard for you to understand what I'm talking about then let me change the word regeneration to grace. Grace preceeds Faith, and faith preceeds Baptism(grace). Why must we have two graces? INLOVE Jnorm Edited June 13, 2006 by jnorm888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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