It's all the Fault of the Zionist Jews

[musturde]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1000494' date='Jun 8 2006, 12:21 PM']
So we should let the Moslems control it?
[/quote]

No, If they had before it would have been fine and dandy. Hopefully it'll calm down within a couple of years.I honestly think all three religions should live in it sidebyside.

Edited June 8, 2006 by musturde

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

sounds bad. the land is too holy for that.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1000494' date='Jun 8 2006, 11:21 AM']
So we should let the Moslems control it?
[/quote]

We should "let?" Who the h*** gave us the power to "let" or "not let?" Our omnipotent DOD? God? Jesus? Lucifer? A "gut feeling?"

Do you favor US involvement in the affairs of all nations on earth? Do you favor US military "intervention" in the affirs of any nation on earth whenever the heck the sitting president deems it "necessary?"

We are not an empire sir. I advise you, as a patriotic American, not to think about this constitutional republic in such an imperial way.

The concerns of the state of Israel are the concerns of the state of Israel. They don't NEED to be OUR concerns. I'd like to know who the heck decided that they are.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Desert Walker' post='1000733' date='Jun 8 2006, 02:39 PM']


We are not an empire sir. I advise you, as a patriotic American, not to think about this constitutional republic in such an imperial way.


[/quote]


Our Constitutional Republic -is- both an Economic Empire (as exemplified by the Athenian Empire) and a military Hegemony.

Our way of life requires that we protect our interests in foreign lands and strike our enemies at a distance.

As a patriotic American, where have you served? Reading your posts regarding military and strategic options, I'm anxious to hear of your experiences in such matters.

Edited June 8, 2006 by MichaelF

[musturde]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1000329' date='Jun 8 2006, 09:21 AM']
Israel has as much right to exist as we (the US) do. We were colonial properties of the British Empire, and we rebelled. The Empire granted the land it controlled (Palestine) to the use of the Jewish Nation.

don't like it? Too bad, welcome to the last gasp of imperialism. legally binding, and backed up with guns.
[/quote]

You used the wrong analogy. We took land away from the Indians. The Jews took land away from the Palestinians. Both states were established wrongly. However, both states do exist.

[heavenseeker]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1000521' date='Jun 8 2006, 12:34 PM']
Hell no!

Moslems are better than Jews, in one way. They were not the chosen people, who then rejected God and his love, and they are not cursed like the Jews. But i see Islam as a barbaric relegion that is worse than the jews, when it comes to opression and murder. I think it should be Christian Land. obviously, as St. Pius X recognized, It is impossible for the Vatican or anyone else to stop the land from being the possesion of the Jews, and i see no real way to fix the situation.
[/quote]

The Moslems are no better than the Jews. At the same time the Jews are no better than the Moslems.

The Jews did not reject God or his love, they just dont believe Jesus is the savior that was promised to them. The Jewish people are no cursed, the problem is that they are viewed as weak an inferior and therefor tooken advantage of.

You are also wrong in calling the Islamic religion barbaric. There are more people that are Islamic that those that live in the middle east. Your false views on their religion is caused by the events that we hear about on the news and is thus the result of violent outbreaks. If you look at history people of every religion and nationality have had "barbaric" times.

As far as who the land should belong to we have no control over. It belongs to the Moslems for the most part only because they are the ones with the higher population in the region. Now if it was up to me the holy land would be shared equaly between Christians, Jews, and the Islamic because it is the birth place of all three religions and we each worship the same God.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1000821' date='Jun 8 2006, 03:02 PM']
Our Constitutional Republic -is- both an Economic Empire (as exemplified by the Athenian Empire) and a military Hegemony.[/quote]
This is true, and it need not be.

[quote]Our way of life requires that we protect our interests in foreign lands and strike our enemies at a distance.[/quote]
What way of life is that? Whatever happened to anti-aircraft batteries, anti-ship batteries, and a populace capable of repelling any sort of military invasion because they all know how to hit a target with a rifle?

[quote]As a patriotic American, where have you served? Reading your posts regarding military and strategic options, I'm anxious to hear of your experiences in such matters.[/quote]
You''re saying that only soldiers can be called patriots. I'm sorry, that is not American. That is fascist. The President should not have the power to mobilize our armed forces at a whim. This President did that. The reason you can't believe it is because you have not read about the amount of political intrigue that went into the fabrication of the Iraq WMD possession intel case. Heck even the Italian SISMI was involved. It's a pretty deep story that, unfortunately, few Americans will familiarize themselves with. This president should be impeached for that alone, but there are other reasons.

Clearly you favor the neo-con vision of this great country and the world. It will ruin us FYI.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='heavenseeker' post='1000972' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:15 PM']
The Moslems are no better than the Jews. At the same time the Jews are no better than the Moslems.

The Jews did not reject God or his love, they just dont believe Jesus is the savior that was promised to them. The Jewish people are no cursed, the problem is that they are viewed as weak an inferior and therefor tooken advantage of.

You are also wrong in calling the Islamic religion barbaric. There are more people that are Islamic that those that live in the middle east. Your false views on their religion is caused by the events that we hear about on the news and is thus the result of violent outbreaks. If you look at history people of every religion and nationality have had "barbaric" times.

As far as who the land should belong to we have no control over. It belongs to the Moslems for the most part only because they are the ones with the higher population in the region. Now if it was up to me the holy land would be shared equaly between Christians, Jews, and the Islamic because it is the birth place of all three religions and we each worship the same God.
[/quote]


the Jews are cursed because of their rejection of God. not believing that Jesus is the messiah, would be rejecting God.


It has always been Catholic teaching.
[quote]
St. Basil the Great: “If someone should kill the son of a man, and then stretch forth his hands still stained with blood to the afflicted father, asking for fellowship, would not the blood of his son, visible on the hand of his murderer, provoke him to just anger instead? And such are the prayers of the Jews, for when they stretch forth their hands in prayer, they only remind God-the-Father of their sin against His Son. And at every stretching-forth of their hands, they only make it obvious that they are stained with the blood of Christ. For they who persevere in their blindness inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers; for they cried out: ‘His blood be upon us, and upon our children’ (Mt. 27:25)”[17]

St. Alphonsus Marie de Liguori: “Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads in saying: ‘His blood be on us and our children’; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood. O my Jesus! …I will not be obstinate like the Jews. I will love Thee forever, forever, forever!”[18]

Pope Innocent III: “The Lord made Cain a wanderer and fugitive over the earth, but set a mark upon him, making his head to shake, lest anyone finding him should slay him. Thus the Jews, against whom the blood of Christ calls out, although they ought not be killed, nevertheless, as wanderers they must remain upon the earth until their faces are filled with shame and they seek the name of Jesus Christ the Lord.”[19]

St. Thomas Aquinas: “Pilate took water in accordance with that, I will wash my hands in innocency, [Psalm 25:6], in a manner testifying and saying, I indeed have sought to deliver this innocent man, but since a tumult is rising, and the charge of treason to Ceasar is urged against me, I am innocent of the blood of this just man. The judge who is thus compelled to give sentence against the Lord, does not convict the accused, but the accusers, pronouncing innocent Him who is to be crucified. See ye to it, as though he had said, I am the law's minister, it is your voice that has shed this blood. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us and on our children. This imprecation rests at the present day upon the Jews: the Lord's blood is not removed from them.” (Catena Aurea, ad loc.)[/quote]

As for Islam not being Barbaric:

[quote]
"47.13": And how many a town which was far more powerful than the town of yours which has driven you out: We destroyed them so there was no helper for them. : The fire shall not touch us but for a few days; and what they have forged deceives them in the matter of their religion.

3.28: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

2.191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"[/quote]

from the Hadith
[quote]
"A women complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, (which was still marked by the slap). At first the prophet said to her: "Get even with him", but then added: "Wait until I think about it". Later on, Allah supposedly revealed 4:34 to Muhammad, after which the prophet said: "We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best". [To beat your wife is best.]
[/quote]


really civilized. the Koran calls for murder, and allows the beating of one's wife.

Funny you say we each worship the same God. This is obviously a lie. Moselms do not believe in the Trinity, neither do Jews. Because Moselms and Jews reject Jesus they reject God, and do not worship him.
[quote]
All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him.[/quote]
-luke 10:22

why should Christians share the holiest land in the world with infedels who are undeserving of it?

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Desert Walker' post='1001169' date='Jun 9 2006, 10:08 AM']
This is true, and it need not be.

[b]Zero-sum game. Want to enjoy a high standard of living, with very little chance of being murdered [i]en masse[/i]? Most Americans do. Ergo, Economic Empire and Military Hegemony.[/b]

What way of life is that? Whatever happened to anti-aircraft batteries, anti-ship batteries, and a populace capable of repelling any sort of military invasion because they all know how to hit a target with a rifle?

[b]Because wars arent fought that way anymore. Also, it's cheaper to fight on -someone elses- land. Ask the Russians.[/b]

You''re saying that only soldiers can be called patriots. I'm sorry, that is not American. That is fascist.
[b]Blah, blah. No, I'm saying people who have no idea of what they speak, are not worth listening to.[/b]

The President should not have the power to mobilize our armed forces at a whim. This President did that.
[b]The President of the United States, being the Supreme Executive, can do what he pleases with the Armed Forces. We answer to him, not to Congress, and always have. Congress, after a certain period of time (90 days), has to be consulted. That's it.

You flunked civics.[/b]

[/quote]


You are a troll, at best. At worst, you are an active sympathizer, who prefers to back a group that is hostile to both our Nation and our Church.

This will be the last time I will respond to you. You've been ignored.

Have the best day ever.

Edited June 9, 2006 by MichaelF

[musturde]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001227' date='Jun 9 2006, 11:53 AM']

As for Islam not being Barbaric:
from the Hadith
really civilized. the Koran calls for murder, and allows the beating of one's wife. [/quote]

The quotes you speak of mainly refer to times during war. In fact, Islam prohibits the killing of innocent lives and even POWs are supposed to be treated with respect. The beating of one's wife is not a beating. It's more of a symbolic tap(which should NOT HURT). They do not allow beating and Muhammad was even against this himself. You have twisted the words of Islam. Do not speak of a religion from a source not of the religion's. (i know just by this that you've looked at anti-Muslim sites which are likened to anti-Catholic sites).
[quote]
Funny you say we each worship the same God. This is obviously a lie. Moselms do not believe in the Trinity, neither do Jews. Because Moselms and Jews reject Jesus they reject God, and do not worship him.
[/quote]
This is why i say, if you believe Muslims don't worship our God then you can't believe Jews do either. In my view they worship the same God differently.

Edited June 9, 2006 by musturde

[musturde]

The idea that Israel will be taken over by Christians is unlikely.

Edited June 9, 2006 by musturde

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='musturde' post='1001301' date='Jun 9 2006, 02:40 PM']
The quotes you speak of mainly refer to times during war. In fact, Islam prohibits the killing of innocent lives and even POWs are supposed to be treated with respect. The beating of one's wife is not a beating. It's more of a symbolic tap(which should NOT HURT). They do not allow beating and Muhammad was even against this himself. You have twisted the words of Islam. Do not speak of a religion from a source not of the religion's. (i know just by this that you've looked at anti-Muslim sites which are likened to anti-Catholic sites).

This is why i say, if you believe Muslims don't worship our God then you can't believe Jews do either. In my view they worship the same God differently.
[/quote]

why are you defending a false relegion, that defiled our churches and killed our pilgrims in the Holy Land?


Who cares what false god they worship? Its obviously not our God.

[musturde]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001404' date='Jun 9 2006, 03:15 PM']
why are you defending a false relegion, that defiled our churches and killed our pilgrims in the Holy Land?
Who cares what false god they worship? Its obviously not our God.
[/quote]

For the sake of truth, you defend what is right. Christianity does not stand for slandering other religions nor does it support making up fictatious facts about the beliefs of other religions. Their "false God" is the God is Abraham. If you believe that the Jewish God is not the same God as our God, then what is your logic? They worship the Father. Muslims worship the Father. Christians worship the Trinity. Is it a different God? No, it is an incomplete idea of the same God.

[heavenseeker]

[quote name='musturde' post='1001301' date='Jun 9 2006, 01:40 PM']
The quotes you speak of mainly refer to times during war. In fact, Islam prohibits the killing of innocent lives and even POWs are supposed to be treated with respect. The beating of one's wife is not a beating. It's more of a symbolic tap(which should NOT HURT). They do not allow beating and Muhammad was even against this himself. You have twisted the words of Islam. Do not speak of a religion from a source not of the religion's. (i know just by this that you've looked at anti-Muslim sites which are likened to anti-Catholic sites).

This is why i say, if you believe Muslims don't worship our God then you can't believe Jews do either. In my view they worship the same God differently.
[/quote]


[quote name='musturde' post='1001315' date='Jun 9 2006, 01:52 PM']
The idea that Israel will be taken over by Christians is unlikely.
[/quote]


[quote name='musturde' post='1001407' date='Jun 9 2006, 03:19 PM']
For the sake of truth, you defend what is right. Christianity does not stand for slandering other religions nor does it support making up fictatious facts about the beliefs of other religions. Their "false God" is the God is Abraham. If you believe that the Jewish God is not the same God as our God, then what is your logic? They worship the Father. Muslims worship the Father. Christians worship the Trinity. Is it a different God? No, it is an incomplete idea of the same God.
[/quote]
Musturde, I am glad that you were the one that responded to each of those post the way you did. Each one of these quoted post of yours are better than any responce I could have made yet still have the same message that I would have intended.

[musturde]

[quote name='heavenseeker' post='1001447' date='Jun 9 2006, 04:21 PM']
Musturde, I am glad that you were the one that responded to each of those post the way you did. Each one of these quoted post of yours are better than any responce I could have made yet still have the same message that I would have intended.
[/quote]

Thanks Heavenseeker. It was refreshing to see your input on this thread. Glad to know someone agrees with me.