do you believe in religious freedom?

[heavenseeker]

i never said i supported any of those things, nor do any of the religions that i know of practic such things or could such things be considered as part of a religion being that they are viewed as illegal acts.

there is a difference between religion and crulity

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1000963' date='Jun 8 2006, 07:58 PM']
Funny. what do we say about making assumptions? i am in full communion with Rome. i do not deny any Popes. Nor am I a Lefebvrite. Prove to me that i am excommunicated, and a protestant.

-Ecclesia Dei

funny, my name ain't on that list.

also

-monsignor Perl of the Ecclesia Dei commision

but ya see, ive never been to an SSPX mass.

you obviously do not know what you are talking about. i reject no Dogma of the Catholic Church Church, I recognize the raining Pope, and even attend the NO mass from time to time.
a love of the TLM, equals protestant?

i know you are a heretic, and that i deny no dogma, nor am i schismatic....
[/quote]





sure, uh huh right. Whatever you say sam.



Hey isn't it passed your bedtime?











INLOVE JNORM

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1000963' date='Jun 8 2006, 07:58 PM']
Pope Liberius was exiled by Constantine's son Constantius, a semi-Arian, and in exile he was browbeaten by Arian bishops into signing a heretical Arian formula and St. Athanasius of Alexandria, the principal opponent of Arianism was excommunicated. When this was examined at Vatican I it was determined that Athanasius was not in fact excommunicated and that Liberius'Ariann creed was null and void since a statement made under duress was no statement at all.
[/quote]

Thank you.

Was just wondering as the lack of such a document puts it up to such debate.
If Constantius had such a document signed by the legitamite Pope condemning St. Athanasius, why not reveal it?
And as your cite says, if any statement was made, it wasn't done freely anyway, so St. Athanasius was never excommunicated.

Anyway, ignore my off topic rantings

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]

sure, uh huh right. Whatever you say sam.



Hey isn't it passed your bedtime.


INLOVE JNORM[/quote]

what? Im 15. Does that make me stupid? you responded to NONE of what i posted. I am not schismatic.

Protestants are famous for saying things, and not being able to prove them

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1000981' date='Jun 8 2006, 10:32 PM']
Thank you.

Was just wondering as the lack of such a document puts it up to such debate.
If Constantius had such a document signed by the legitamite Pope condemning St. Athanasius, why not reveal it?
And as your cite says, if any statement was made, it wasn't done freely anyway, so St. Athanasius was never excommunicated.

Anyway, ignore my off topic rantings
[/quote]

Exactly. Athansius was never excommunicated, becuase the excommunication was invalid.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001064' date='Jun 9 2006, 03:56 AM']
what? Im 15. Does that make me stupid? you responded to NONE of what i posted. I am not schismatic.

Protestants are famous for saying things, and not being able to prove them
Exactly. Athansius was never excommunicated, becuase the excommunication was invalid.
[/quote]



I can only know what you type which isn't consistent by the way but you are 15 so I won't press you as hard on your logic.







INLOVE Jnorm

P.S. "how can you leave the Church while still being in full communion with it"? illogical!

But then again.....how can you leave when your only 15. My assumption is that your parants probly still force you to go to Mass with them every week. Your not old enough to drive so you can't drive to Mass on your own. Yet you talk this stuff about leaving the church?

Maybe when you turn 16 or 18 I'll believe you....maybe. But until then you are just playing games and you have alot to learn. Your thinking is pretty much in concrete mode right now. Maybe in a few years you will be able to think more analytical and maybe then you will be able to appreciate Vatican II

God Bless

Edited June 9, 2006 by jnorm888

[chris]

Whats so bad about being 16? We were all once at that age and its quite defining age for some people. 16 was when I realized that there more to this world, a further purpose. It scared me to know that I was accountable to a higher God, Jesus the Christ. How would you know exactly if he is playing games when you posted the threatening topic? Secoundly, The only hostle people I know arent Catholics. There was a time in history that we did have the Crusades. Yet do you remeber the cross about the sun? Do you forget what God told him? " In this sign Conqure? Is not the wages of sin death? We all deserve to die and feel the wrath of Christ for Romans 9:11 says All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. I have protestant parents, and they were the most hostile against me. Not me against them. I couldnt really understand it either. The fact is that Catholics are not hostile. I personally favor Pacifism...Being one. And I am happy to be a converted Catholic. A child in God's eyes. Like every one of us.


Yes, to answer your poll. I do belive in religious freedom. Anything to hinder an argument. I will worship and not judge as my GOD tells me not to. But, remeber there is a major difference between judgeing someone and discerning what is right from what is wrong.

-In Christ

Chris

Edited June 9, 2006 by Convert4888

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jnorm888' post='1001096' date='Jun 9 2006, 08:22 AM']
I can only know what you type which isn't consistent by the way but you are 15 so I won't press you as hard on your logic.
INLOVE Jnorm

P.S. "how can you leave the Church while still being in full communion with it"? illogical!

But then again.....how can you leave when your only 15. My assumption is that your parants probly still force you to go to Mass with them every week. Your not old enough to drive so you can't drive to Mass on your own. Yet you talk this stuff about leaving the church?

Maybe when you turn 16 or 18 I'll believe you....maybe. But until then you are just playing games and you have alot to learn. Your thinking is pretty much in concrete mode right now. Maybe in a few years you will be able to think more analytical and maybe then you will be able to appreciate Vatican II

God Bless
[/quote]

I left the Church, but i came back to the church. I am a ctholic. its not illogical, you just don't have your facts straight. My parents are not practicing Catholics, i usually drag THEM to the Traditional Latin Mass. What is to appreciate about vatican II? Lefebvre and others did not appreciate vatican II and they were not "childish" or "immature". i do not accept Vatican II because it contradicts the Faith taught up until 1965.

Stop assuming things, they always seem to be wrong.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Convert4888' post='1001102' date='Jun 9 2006, 06:39 AM']
Whats so bad about being 16? We were all once at that age and its quite defining age for some people. 16 was when I realized that there more to this world, a further purpose. It scared me to know that I was accountable to a higher God, Jesus the Christ. How would you know exactly if he is playing games when you posted the threatening topic? Secoundly, The only hostle people I know arent Catholics. There was a time in history that we did have the Crusades. Yet do you remeber the cross about the sun? Do you forget what God told him? " In this sign Conqure? Is not the wages of sin death? We all deserve to die and feel the wrath of Christ for Romans 9:11 says All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. I have protestant parents, and they were the most hostile against me. Not me against them. I couldnt really understand it either. The fact is that Catholics are not hostile. I personally favor Pacifism...Being one. And I am happy to be a converted Catholic. A child in God's eyes. Like every one of us.
Yes, to answer your poll. I do belive in religious freedom. Anything to hinder an argument. I will worship and not judge as my GOD tells me not to. But, remeber there is a major difference between judgeing someone and discerning what is right from what is wrong.

-In Christ

Chris
[/quote]




It's Romans 3:23 fam

"for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"

And there is nothing wrong about being 16. In some states you can drive at the age of 16. Which means you can actually drive to whatever Mass you want.



And I can only know what he types. Not only on this thread but elsewhere as well. He is either telling fibs about leaving the Roman church or his reasoning about being in full communion is missleading.

You can't have it both ways.



And that stuff about the Cross and the Sun?............Are you Talking about Constantine? What does he have to do with this? His Christian Empire has to do with what we call the Byzantium Empire. That's the authentic or real Holy Roman Empire. And the Christians of that Empire were Eastern and Oriental Orthodox for the most part. For the Latin church .....centuries later ordained her own emperor.

Rome caused a civil schism when she created her own Empire which in my opinion paved the way for the Church schism of 1054 A.D.

But that's another story. What does Constantine and his Empire and killing to get it have to do with this?



And by the way. This isn't my thread nor my poll.







INLOVE Jnorm

I'm sorry to hear about your parents treating you bad, but that stuff happens on both sides of the fence. Well I'm happy for you, and I'm glad that you are a Latin Catholic, but take my advice and don't stop reading your Bible. Vatican II allows you to read God's word. So take full advantage of it and stay away from those rad trads. Instead read the modern catechism as well as alot of the PreNicene, Nicene, and early Post Nicene Fathers. And you should be fine.


God Bless

Edited June 9, 2006 by jnorm888

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jnorm888' post='1001128' date='Jun 9 2006, 09:25 AM']
It's Romans 3:23 fam

"for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"

And there is nothing wrong about being 16. In some states you can drive at the age of 16. Which means you can actually drive to whatever Mass you want.
And I can only know what he types. Not only on this thread but elsewhere as well. He is either telling fibs about leaving the Roman church or his reasoning about being in full communion is missleading.

You can't have it both ways.
And that stuff about the Cross and the Sun?............Are you Talking about Constantine? What does he have to do with this? His Christian Empire has to do with what we call the Byzantium Empire. That's the authentic or real Holy Roman Empire. And the Christians of that Empire were Eastern and Oriental Orthodox for the most part.

Rome caused a civil schism when she created her own Empire which in my opinion paved the way for the Church schism of 1054 A.D.

But that's another story. What does Constantine and his Empire and killing to get it have to do this?
And by the way. This isn't my thread nor my poll.
INLOVE Jnorm

I'm sorry to hear about your parents treating you bad, but that stuff happens on both sides of the fence. Well I'm happy for you, and I'm glad that you are a Latin Catholic, but take my advice and don't stop reading your Bible. Vatican II allows you to read God's word. So take full advantage of it and stay away from those rad trads. Instead read the modern catechism as well as alot of the PreNicene, Nicene, and early Post Nicene Fathers. And you should be fine.
God Bless
[/quote]

There is obviously a disconnect here. I left the church. Then i came back. therefore I'm in full communion. Get it?

Vatican II allows me to read my bible? you are ridiculous. what the hell does that even mean?

I will not read the New catechism, becuase it is filled with errors of vatican II. I prefer the older catechisms.

i don't need advice from someone who is a protestant heretic.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001124' date='Jun 9 2006, 07:15 AM']
I left the Church, but i came back to the church. I am a ctholic. its not illogical, you just don't have your facts straight. My parents are not practicing Catholics, i usually drag THEM to the Traditional Latin Mass. What is to appreciate about vatican II? Lefebvre and others did not appreciate vatican II and they were not "childish" or "immature". i do not accept Vatican II because it contradicts the Faith taught up until 1965.

Stop assuming things, they always seem to be wrong.
[/quote]



Well I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

So is it safe for me to assume that you are a Roman Catholic in full communion who is in dissent on the issue of Vatican II?




INLOVE Jnorm

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001129' date='Jun 9 2006, 07:35 AM']
There is obviously a disconnect here. I left the church. Then i came back. therefore I'm in full communion. Get it?

Vatican II allows me to read my bible? you are ridiculous. what the hell does that even mean?

I will not read the New catechism, becuase it is filled with errors of vatican II. I prefer the older catechisms.

i don't need advice from someone who is a protestant heretic.
[/quote]



That post was for Convert4888



If you didn't know he is a convert.


And if you didn't know Protestants read the Bible.


Therefore I told him to keep reading the Bible as A Roman Catholic for Vatican II allows him to.



And now that you mentioned it I think you are in need of much advice from Protestant heretics.






INLOVE Jnorm

P.S. "Just Because you are a Roman Catholic doesn't mean you must be biblically illiterate."

Edited June 9, 2006 by jnorm888

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jnorm888' post='1001135' date='Jun 9 2006, 09:53 AM']
Well I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

So is it safe for me to assume that you are a Roman Catholic in full communion who is in dissent on the issue of Vatican II?
INLOVE Jnorm
[/quote]


no. I don't dissent on Vatican II. I believe it was a legitimate council called by a legitimate Pope. But it defined no Dogma, therefore i am not bound to accept any of it as being infallibile. I also see it as council that is often interpreted in a liberal, and un-catholic way. Jesus told us that we can judge a tree by the fruits (Mt 7:15-20.) Vatican II has not brought forth good fruit. Therefore, i follow Catholicism as it has always been taught, and I worship as Catholics always have worshipped.

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1001139' date='Jun 9 2006, 08:02 AM']
no. I don't dissent on Vatican II. I believe it was a legitimate council called by a legitimate Pope. But it defined no Dogma, therefore i am not bound to accept any of it as being infallibile. I also see it as council that is often interpreted in a liberal, and un-catholic way. Jesus told us that we can judge a tree by the fruits (Mt 7:15-20.) Vatican II has not brought forth good fruit. Therefore, i follow Catholicism as it has always been taught, and I worship as Catholics always have worshipped.
[/quote]


Interesting, I forgot that Rome sees a difference between "DOCTRINE" and "DOGMA"



Well Do you read your Bible? Do you own a Bible?


Do you go to Masses spoken in English?







INLOVE Jnorm

P.S. "Some Protestants and Old Catholics like Vatican II for some of the changes were practical and necessary"



Do you really think what you believe was held by the Latin church for 1,965 years? The Latin church changed many times within that 1,965 years Sam. You just need to dig deeper into your history. Maybe then you will be able to accept Vatican II.

Edited June 9, 2006 by jnorm888

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jnorm888' post='1001143' date='Jun 9 2006, 10:12 AM']
Interesting, I forgot that Rome sees a difference between "DOCTRINE" and "DOGMA"
Well Do you read your Bible? Do you own a Bible?
Do you go to Masses spoken in English?
INLOVE Jnorm

P.S. "Some Protestants and Old Catholics like Vatican II for some of the changes were practical and necessary"
[/quote]


I have many bibles, and i do read them from time to time. I prefer to read old catechisms, because they explain our doctrine and use the bible to support it . i go to mass spoken in English, only when i must.

that is becuase Vatican II gave into protestantism. It turned the Catholic Church into a reformed church.
[quote]
the French journal, LA DOCUMENTATION CATHOLIQUE of July 3, 1983, a mixed group of Catholics and Lutherans declared that

[b]"among the ideas of Vatican Council II, one can find a welcoming of the requests made by Luther."[/b] (de Lassus, p. 17)[/quote]

[Fidei Defensor]

I strongly suggest you don't take anything that Extra ecclesiam nulla salus says seriously.

He is still pretty young and nieve. He has alot to learn about how the world works.

We love you Sam

[goldenchild17]

No, but maybe you could address the things he brings up. Sources are sources no matter how old a person is. How is a young person to change their mind and be brought back to the Church if they are not kindly shown how they are misunderstanding something?