The Protestant Canon

[frozencell]

We can partake of the relationship. I am sorry that communion was so .. weak at your old church, and maybe you'll be happy to know when I gave communion, it was a celebration with food and lots of laughs and smiles. We celebrated and praised God for what He did. I taught straight through from the first passover in Egypt to the passover we celebrate today and it is an amazing journey.

If you find you draw closer to Christ through the Church, sobeit, however never forget that you were saved by grace, through no strength of your own. For when we think that, we put ourselves under the law, and partly under the law, we will be judged by the law.

I think you are confusing Communion with Sunday After Church Brunch. I did all that, too. It was nice to converse with others who believe in God.

I know that I'm not anywhere near good enough to get to heaven on my own. I, at no point, pretend to be. I don't see how this has anything to do with the Catholic Church either. That's where grace comes in, which the Church teaches.

I am judged by God and God alone, as is every other Catholic. And I know that God isn't going to look at me and say, "Ew...He was a Catholic. I'm not sure about you." I am God's good and faithful servant, albeit sinful, and that's what He wants me to be. I am not sure of which law you are speaking of me being under, but I hope that your relationship can be as deep as it can possibly humanly be wherever it is you attend services.

[Bruce S]

That's where grace comes in, which the Church teaches.

Be careful here, if you believe that too much, you run afoul of TRENT which anathemized those that believed that.

Can't have salvation without "Mother Church" you know, messes up the power politics, so GRACE is good, ADHERANCE to the Catholic Church is better.

[Circle_Master]

I think you are confusing Communion with Sunday After Church Brunch. I did all that, too. It was nice to converse with others who believe in God.

No I am not. A few Catholic Church's said they draw the sword when mocking the Eucharist? Why are you mocking communion now? Because your church did it so blandly does not mean all do, or that If mine was amesome I am wrong.

I know that I'm not anywhere near good enough to get to heaven on my own. I, at no point, pretend to be. I don't see how this has anything to do with the Catholic Church either. That's where grace comes in, which the Church teaches.

Ah, but it isn't. Because the Catholic Church teaches that grace is administered through the sacraments. That is built on works, not grace. Is not doing a sacrament to get grace then depend on what you do, and not what God does? If I am wrong on this, please correct me, but it was affirmed when I was arguing on the message of James in another thread.

[cmotherofpirl]

GRace is a free gift of God. It is recieved thru the sacraments, but not limited to the Sacraments.

Prots miss out on a lot of grace :(

[Circle_Master]

I can receive no more grace than I have within me now. I am saved and by yielding to the Holy Spirit I can do all things through Christ. It doesn't say "do more sacraments and you can do more things!", my grace is complete and it is my falling and yielding to my old self which causes me to limit myself.

[cmotherofpirl]

I can receive no more grace than I have within me now. I am saved and by yielding to the Holy Spirit I can do all things through Christ. It doesn't say "do more sacraments and you can do more things!", my grace is complete and it is my falling and yielding to my old self which causes me to limit myself.

How sad that you believe this.

[Circle_Master]

what left is there for me to get? I have eternal life, and the Spirit dwells within me? Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places"

[cmotherofpirl]

I am the living bread which came down from heaven.

52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.

53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

55 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.

57 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him.

[phatcatholic]

circle,

i know this is off topic......but i just want to say that i think ur a cool cat. of course, i don't always agree w/ what u post, but i see in u a person who is convicted, who asks questions b/c he truly wants to learn, and who at least makes an effort not to be offensive. in these characteristics, you put yourself above and beyond a certain someone else who posts here.

thanks bro,

phatcatholic

[Paladin D]

circle,

i know this is off topic......but i just want to say that i think ur a cool cat. of course, i don't always agree w/ what u post, but i see in u a person who is convicted, who asks questions b/c he truly wants to learn, and who at least makes an effort not to be offensive. in these characteristics, you put yourself above and beyond a certain someone else who posts here.

thanks bro,

phatcatholic

I agree with Phatcatholic, Circle, you're a good guy.

[beng]

Ahhh RoTK was nice.

It's too late now, so can't do any research. Therefore I'll just answer this to clear up things.

Circle_Master

I'm glad you aren't done then.  And your reference to Josephus doesn't help you either.  I've read large chunks of Josephus and at least in everything I read he doesn't reference any of them being in the Septuagint.

Josephus would be mention. It won't be ALL about Josephus.

You can not say clearly from any of them.

Not all OT quotes are clear. You should know this.

Saying that Christ reguarded it as having authority, well, He doesn't say He is quoting does He?

Most of the NT people that quote OT, don't say who they're quoting. You should know this too.

He is just regurgitating them. 

??? I don't know what you're getting at.

If you think finding a pattern of two words somewhere means without a doubt that it is quoted, then we're going to have to have things such as Genesis 1 completely quoted from Egyptian poems as well.

The problem is, it's not just word similiarity. But the similiarity of ides, context, theme. (Not to mention that Paul sat "But as it is written")

Well, if some Egyptian poem has similiarity of words, context, theme, idea, then why not? Maybe The Egyptian Poem is quoting Genesis.

But what if Genesis is quoting Egyptian poem? Well this would be an entirely differnt subject. Some "progressive" thinkers (both Protestant and Catholic) would agree that Genesis borrowed idea from nerby tribes (and Egypt would be included). But "conservative" thinkers (both Protestant and Catholic), emphasizing Bible inerancy, would disagree. So, let's not go there.

As for the Paul statement, if you read the past verse in Isaiah 64:4, it can fit the last quotation.  The Sirach one itself is not a perfect match-up either.

I never said direct quote. Thus it doesn't need to be perfect (like how all OT quotes in the NT are not exact quote ALL the time).

Now, Let's look at Isaian 64:4

64:4

For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

If you're talking about the "eye" and "ear" thing, yeah, maybe Paul got it from there.

But the similiarity I pointed out wasn't about that. It's about "wisdom which God had created before the world/all things" and he "prepared it [wisdom] for those who love him"

Isaiah 64:4 is not talking about wisdom. And it's not talking about the fatc that this wisdom is created before the world/all things. Also in Isaiah 64:4 God prepared "something" (it's not wisdom) for those who await him. Not for those who love him.

Thus Isaiah 64:4 can not be used.

[Circle_Master]

I am the living bread which came down from heaven.

I could just see a loaf of bread floating down from heaven with eyes in it. ROFL (i'm serious laughing out loud )

Thanks for the compliment phatcatholic and Paladin D. Now I feel bad showing you guys how wrong you are! :D

and beng, this quoted verse stuff is all messed up. you can't argue without a doubt, and i'm not sure that i can either on this one. I would suggest we call it a draw on this stance. if you want to keep going I will, but I don't think it will be very productive for anyone, and it will take a while.

[cmotherofpirl]

I could just see a loaf of bread floating down from heaven with eyes in it. ROFL (i'm serious laughing out loud )

Thanks for the compliment phatcatholic and Paladin D. Now I feel bad showing you guys how wrong you are! :D

and beng, this quoted verse stuff is all messed up. you can't argue without a doubt, and i'm not sure that i can either on this one. I would suggest we call it a draw on this stance. if you want to keep going I will, but I don't think it will be very productive for anyone, and it will take a while.

Mayb4e you should read the OT again.

The jews knew full well what Jesus was referring to.

Jesus was using an allusion as an introduction to a new teaching.

Maybe you should look it up. :)

[Circle_Master]

i have cmom. have you ever done a study of passover and studied what cup the one Jesus used would have been, and what that means to the Jews? I would suggest that because it sheds much light on what Jesus was speaking of.

[cmotherofpirl]

i have cmom. have you ever done a study of passover and studied what cup the one Jesus used would have been, and what that means to the Jews? I would suggest that because it sheds much light on what Jesus was speaking of.

Yes I have.

Have you studied the bread from heaven?