Harry Potter

[littleflower+JMJ]

patrick madrid. father of eleven explained it very well when i attended his seminar and a concerned parented asked about harry potter. i wish you should have seen how he answered, no wishy-washy, serious-tone and made sure everyone in the room (there was over a thousand of us there) made sure we knew what danger harry potter is. that he would not allow any one of his eleven children pick up that book and for a good reason too.

this is from a scholar who has studied extensivly over this matter.

and thats the point we miss.

sure harry potter seems great, exciting, heck, even fun. but of course we would see no reason in it, what do we know? no we're not sinning or condemned for reading Harry Potter but we have to question what the motive is behind these series that have send us red flags up but yet, so many do not pay heed to them.

parents have concern, former occult ppl who are now catholic have fears over it, even kids have come up (from catholic school teachers making them read harry potter and some have been known to make their students further their study into the pagan and witchcraft through projects and readigns) and we should address them, for something that has made such an impact on us and our children, its worth addressing. have these people read whats in the book?

patrick madrid knows latin, and in the book, and says that is mentioned numerous times is saying, "by the head of the dragon", how would anyone know its what its saying unless you knew latin? and we all know what "dragon" we are calling upon when saying it.

remember the devil is and acting like a devouring lion, waiting for a chance, and our children are the ones we're risking. i would never let my little brothers read such a thing because your allowing the devil to use that innocent little book to open dark doors of magic and so forth.

your responsible of protecting your children, and i would never allow my children to even get a glimspe of that "darK"world that rowling writes of. why not something good and with God? (patrick madrid)

like tina's articles point out, how many of us have had any kinds of experiences from the dark world of magic in reality to know the danger and risks such playfullness it contains? we are nto scared because we have not opened those doors yet, harry potter is the same game, just a different name.

i trust patrick madrid and other ppl about the danger of harry potter because they know and have done research on it. we have only merely open a book and read, without realizing we're opening a can of worms in the process.

this is something serious and something we need to all question. for us who are strong in faith, and older and mature, we might go unscarred, but what about all the thousands of others, that the harry potter books are planting seeds of in? thats all it takes, especially for a vunerable child.

think about it as this....what if you had a glass of water and 90% of good water but 10% was poison. would you still drink that glass of water? much less your children?

You wouldn't because even though its just 10% of poison, poison is poison.

to hear anyone who has converted from the occult okay something like this, alarms me, who could one who was soo close to evil at one time, okay it later on? if they know the potential it has.. if they know the real stuff, first hand, why allow it for children also? that just like fire, its not something to be played with

harry potter books are getting darker, and they will continue to get darker, trust me. as parents, i would make sure you do your part in protecting your child. be responsible and read first whatever you allow your child to read.

and us speaking up for the kids who may not have that watchful parent eye over their shoulder all the time, this is for them and for all children in danger.

and however we shall come to harry potter as, harmless, fun, its our choice..but no matter how many different faces it may partake in, we shall NOT fail to recognize and know that magic is magic.

as for parents saying no, thank them. we should be all be grateful for parents who care enough to stop us from any possible harm.

God bless!

+JMJ

and thats my two cents....no refunds! :D

[foundsheep]

So how does LoTr not equate?

[Circle_Master]

i'll just throw a few things out

the good guys don't win by using what the evil guys use (i.e. the ends do not justify the means)

LotR is mystical and faerie in nature and is obvious to not be this world

LotR also has magic restricted to a very few people, no one normal.

Magic in LotR is limited as well, the movies put much more magic in than the books ever had.

To defeat evil, good must resist greed and pride (to get the ring to mt. doom)

Tolkien was a Christian and didn't study the occult ok this one is weak

[foundsheep]

:lol: and the midget with the AX?

Im just being fussy for Tinas sake. :loco:

[littleflower+JMJ]

Tolkien was a Christian and didn't study the occult ok this one is weak

*ahem* tolkien was a devout catholic :P

[foundsheep]

BOO-YAH!

Ive always wanted to do that.... :loco:

[Circle_Master]

tolkien witnessed to C.S. Lewis too, although you might not care about that. I love both authors.

[Circle_Master]

*ahem* tolkien was a devout catholic

:rolling: <_<

[Ash Wednesday]

Midgets rule. :shield:

[foundsheep]

Excuse me, we are PC here, those are munchkins not midgets.

[frozencell]

i'll just throw a few things out

the good guys don't win by using what the evil guys use (i.e. the ends do not justify the means)

LotR is mystical and faerie in nature and is obvious to not be this world

LotR also has magic restricted to a very few people, no one normal.

Magic in LotR is limited as well, the movies put much more magic in than the books ever had.

To defeat evil, good must resist greed and pride (to get the ring to mt. doom)

Tolkien was a Christian and didn't study the occult ok this one is weak

I think that if you are going to lobby against HP then you have to look at all angles. littleflower did that, I appreciated her view although I didn't agree with it.

First, whether this world or a fictional one doesn't really matter. Mysticism is mysticism.

And very few people having magic doesn't matter either. As littleflower said - magic is magic.

I think them both harmless.

If you oppose HP it only seems logical to oppose LOTR, too.

Until tomorrow.... :D

--End Transmission--

[jmjtina]

here's some more good reading..... :read:

Disturbing Religious Elements

I further noticed some disturbing religious elements in the books — an apparent twisting of Catholic terminology, symbolism, and even theology. Whether or not all the instances of such twisting were intentional, the dangerous confusion resulting in the minds of young readers remains the same.

Picture this. In Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, pages 51-52, Harry is hidden in a shop that sells paraphernalia of the Dark Arts. He sees a customer express interest in a withered hand sitting on a cushion. Turns out it’s called the “Hand of Glory,” and it’s considered the “best friend” of thieves and plunderers.

Wait a minute. “Glory” is a term of worship used by angels and humans alike. Why is it being used to describe the favorite tool of robbers?

Later, when attending a “deathday party” for ghosts, Harry and his friends notice “a group of gloomy nuns . . . and the fat friar” (p. 132). This was a dark and dreary party of obviously tortured souls, and the friar and the nuns could have easily been left out. Did Rowling think this was cute or did she mean to give insult?

Blink and you’d miss it, but in two short paragraphs of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, Rowling twists and perverts the meaning of a word of tremendous significance to Catholics. The word is “transfiguration,” which should call to every Catholic child’s mind the glorification of our Lord on the mountaintop with Moses and Elijah. Instead, Rowling uses the word to mean “some of the most complex and dangerous magic you will learn”: that of changing one object into another (p. 134).

Having thus assigned “transfiguration” a decidedly un-Christian meaning in the first book, she peppers the second book with numerous references to the subject. My heart breaks when I think of how many children will forever more listen to the Gospel reading about the Transfiguration, and will find their minds drawn to the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

The book of Revelation is arguably the least understood book of the Bible, but the significance of one element in it is generally agreed upon: The number “666” is the diabolical number of the beast (see Rev 13:18), and it’s not a good thing. Yet J. K. Rowling has chosen to use this number as significant for one of the most unselfish and noble of her characters, Mr. Nicolas Flamel.

Always portrayed as a good character, at the end of the first book he is raised to heights of actual heroism when he decides to lose his life for the sake of the world. We the readers are introduced to Flamel when Harry and his friends read Flamel’s biography on page 220. Figuring prominently in this biography is the fact that last year Mr. Flamel celebrated his six hundred and sixty-fifth birthday. That means that the year in which his biography was written, the year in which he is immortalized for all of us, Mr. Flamel is in the 666th year of his life. The symbol of the beast for Christians is the age of the savior of humanity for Hogwarts.

Rowling then presents a perversion of Catholic theology when a unicorn is killed just before the climax of the first book. “The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price,” writes Rowling on page 258. Drinking blood will keep us alive?

When I first read this, I wondered if we were about to see a Catholic metaphor that might redeem the entire book. The next phrase kept my hope alive, “You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself. . . .” Yes, I thought, we are about to see a Eucharistic analogy, but then my eyes traveled to the next line on the page: “You will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.”

I felt as if I’d been punched in the stomach. It isn’t the crime of killing the pure and defenseless unicorn that curses, but the act of drinking its blood. What a horrendous twisting of the biblical promise that drinking the blood of Jesus, who is the purest of the pure, will bring us eternal life. The antithetical notion that a pure creature’s blood will bring us “a half-life, a cursed life” is a slap in the face of Catholics.

Okay so you don't agree. The arguments made against HP are very grave and shouldn't be taken lightly. It attacks at our faith with witchcraft in the making at our children. To say LOTR is guilty of the same charge is illogical. Have you read the LOTR's? they are nothing alike. If you have read the book Gandalf's role isn't that of a typical wizard, he is a protector, a care taker who isn't a wizard to the definition except that he wears a pointy hat. (And not all the time! haha) He is like the main advisor who advises all to not use the ring. Gandalf, nor Suarmon never try to teach or attempt to recruit or train anyone in how to use magic or spells. There is no possibility for any of the hobbits (or any of the men) to become wizards. If you understand LOTR it is symbolic of our own battle good and evil here on earth. HP is a wizard by definition. The spells, the potions, the tarot cards, the blood. He is a wizard in training along with all the hogwarts alumni. Remember the focus of the LOTR isn't Gandalf and his magic, but the destruction of evil in the ring. (wow, i summarized all three books in less than a sentence.....) Harry Potter is about magic and his use of it.

2115: God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116: All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117: All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.

I still don't think we should let the minority of the kids who read HP fall into the occult for the majorities entertainment. The Catholic Apologist, Patrick Madrid gave some great reasons why as flowery stated. Besides as a teacher, I would definitely argue that there is BETTER literature than HP. haha.

oh and Foundsheep. your getting confused with the Wizard of Oz and LOTR. How many times must I correct you? :squash: And watching the extended versions don't count as reading the books foundsheep......haha.

i am such a night owl. :ph34r:

:ph34r: ninja vanish.

[foundsheep]

Just dont tell the elf. :P

[TABBY]

The ones who disagree with Harry Potter...since you have expressed your thoughts on HP i was wondering what your thoughts on Bewitched is considered bad as well?

Edited December 31, 2003 by TABBY

[Live4Him]

But momma said

momma said

momma said

LOTR is the Devil

JRR Tolkin was a faithful Catholic. Lord of the rings shows how evil can control us if we become attached to worldly things. You want to know something Adam Sandler is closer to the devil have you seen his crudness to humans.