The Unforgivable Sin

[Bruce S]

Impuning a known truth is denying the existance of God or the Church.

We agree then, it ties salvation to A church, not Jesus. Point made.

Envy of spiritual goods, is being envious that someone is holier or has recieved gifts from God.

That keeps you out of heaven? OK, name one person that doesn't envy the really "holy" everyone does that, everyone, one should, envy, AND DESIRE that added degree of holiness. That is GOOD, it spurs one on to a closer relationship with God and His Son, and the HS.

Why are these so hard or is it because they are catholic?

Edited December 31, 2003 by Bruce S

[Bruce S]

What about you Bruce? Here, you've been given knowledge how the Catholic Church really is. But you continue to deny it with lies. Even I have given you scripture reference but you're still stubborn.

Yep. Happy heretic here, complete, utter, total, unremitting, absolute rejection of Rome in my salvation. You got me here.

I trust in God, Jesus, AND the Holy Spirit for my salvation, sorry, silly me, I guess I'm damned for that one....not.

Lies?

Perhaps from your perspective, I grant you that, if lies are the truth, and Rome has christmas treed the message with so much baggage [this is the Protetant view] over the centuries that the basic message is almost lost. Specifically, I point to the overemphasis on Mary and the Saints [again a Protestant interpretation] as evidence of this.

[jasJis]

The word PRESUMPTION to a Catholic means that one cannot obtain heaven without the sacraments, go read TRENT, it anathemises, or condemns anyone that PRESUMES that Jesus died and his death, and YOUR acceptance of Jesus alone, without the OTCHAWSI can lead to heaven.

Bruce,

When are you going to read all of Trent, and try to present Church teachings in context. Come on dude. You seem much more intelligent that undermining your own arguments with unfettered bias and myopia. Think QUALITY over Quantity.

We'll wait for ya... :popcorn:

[aquamarine]

I just wanted to say something about this 'envy' thing people seem to be getting stuck on, and please, if I get it wrong, let me know - this is all off the top of my head...

The 'envy' that is a sin that's being discussed here isn't the same as looking towards others as mentors or as role models and wanting to be the same as those people. It's more of a covetousness combined with loathing - envying someone to the degree that we hate them (or what they have) to the degree we must destroy them or their gifts, bring them down in some way, or resent the giver for giving those gifts to someone other than ourselves.

It's okay to look at anyone and say, "Wow! They're really on to something, and they've really been blessed by God with some very special abilities.", and be inspired, lifted up, encouraged and affirmed by that. It's not okay to look at someone else and say, "Hey! Why them and not me? What's up with that, God? What about me? And, BTW, that person is a <insert insult here>, so they don't even deserve it!" (whatever 'it' may be - a seemingly closer relationship with God, a true love of prayer, the gift of teaching and leading, etc.).

There's a very destructive type of envy out there that seeks to destroy others and ultimately destroys ourselves because we're so busy coveting what others have that we fail to see what we have and where God is working in our own lives.

[cmotherofpirl]

you are absolutely right aqua

And welcome to phatmass!

Edited December 31, 2003 by cmotherofpirl