Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 How about this? [quote]Catholic author Ken C. Jones' recent book, 'Index of Leading Catholic Indicators' shows that only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception. Fifty-three percent lay religious teachers believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic. Sixty-five percent teachers believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry. Seventy-seven percent lay religious teachers believe one can be a good Catholic without going to mass on Sundays. By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus. [/quote] The Da Vinci Code is fiction. The facts listed are real. Which is a greater threat to our Church? Its just my personal opinion folks but I think we would be better served if we were more focused on educating our brethren on the Church than on the problems with a work of fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 if people don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, how will they believe that a piece of bread is His Body and Blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='Lil Red' post='982866' date='May 16 2006, 07:20 PM'] if people don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, how will they believe that a piece of bread is His Body and Blood? [/quote] Indeed. Another point for contemporary "Me and Jesus" catechesis: if you understate Jesus' divinity to the point of teaching, implicitly or explicitly, that He's not really God, what's so special about having Him as a friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='Lil Red' post='982866' date='May 16 2006, 06:20 PM'] if people don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, how will they believe that a piece of bread is His Body and Blood? [/quote] See now Red you're one of the folks in the trenches. You're teaching the Truths of the Church everyday. Conversely you see firsthand what I'm talking about. There are no less than a dozen threads dedicated to this movie/book. Everyone is sooooo scandalized by it. Fine. But the same outrage came from "Last Temptation" and it went away. And we were left with poorly catechized Catholics The same thing will probably happen here. I just think if we had our priorities straight, more people would be chuckling about this movie instead of being scandalized by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' post='982891' date='May 16 2006, 06:29 PM']See now Red you're one of the folks in the trenches. You're teaching the Truths of the Church everyday. Conversely you see firsthand what I'm talking about. [/quote]i do see what you are talking about. but catechesis (and catechists) can't do everything on their own. there comes a point when a parent, or teen, or adult must step up to the plate and take responsibility for their own faith education - because like it or not, priests aren't doing it. and catechists can't do it alone. [quote name='hot stuff' post='982891' date='May 16 2006, 06:29 PM']There are no less than a dozen threads dedicated to this movie/book. [/quote] tell me about it, it's starting to grate on my nerves. [quote name='hot stuff' post='982891' date='May 16 2006, 06:29 PM']Everyone is sooooo scandalized by it. Fine. But the same outrage came from "Last Temptation" and it went away. And we were left with poorly catechized Catholics. The same thing will probably happen here.[/quote]but you have to figure in the era that movie came out. it came out the same time the Church was going through a lot of changes - a time in which thousands of religious left their vocations, a time when the religious that stayed opened themselves up to the heretical ideas of the era. they were having a crisis of faith. of failing to be faithful to the FACT of Jesus Christ and his redeeming work. deeper conformity to Christ is what is required in these times (to paraphrase George Weigel). and if the religious who stayed weren't fully conformed to Christ - how can they teach the basics of the faith to the minds who needed Truth? they can't. [quote name='hot stuff' post='982891' date='May 16 2006, 06:29 PM']I just think if we had our priorities straight, more people would be chuckling about this movie instead of being scandalized by it.[/quote]i really wish i could chuckle at this movie, hot stuff, i really do. the fact is, if i weren't a youth minister, i probably would shake my head and chuckle. but i can't. this movie/book is influencing young minds, whether we like it or not. influencing minds too young to discern for themselves. Edited May 17, 2006 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote] i do see what you are talking about. but catechesis (and catechists) can't do everything on their own. there comes a point when a parent, or teen, or adult must step up to the plate and take responsibility for their own faith education - because like it or not, priests aren't doing it. and catechists can't do it alone.[/quote] Amen amen and amen Red! It has to be a collaborative effort. Parents who have a sixth grade understanding of Catholicism expect catechists to teach their kids. (And this is in no way a criticism of people like you who have dedicated themselves to answering God's call!) But I do believe that it is about catechesis. Catholics believe that once they've been confirmed. they really don't have to learn anything else. And they believe that because the Church really infers that. Anyway I rarely rant. But this movie hoopla got to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='982927' date='May 16 2006, 06:48 PM'] Amen amen and amen Red! It has to be a collaborative effort. Parents who have a sixth grade understanding of Catholicism expect catechists to teach their kids. (And this is in no way a criticism of people like you who have dedicated themselves to answering God's call!) [/quote]no criticism was taken the problem is, adult catechesis isn't happening, and most adults don't see the need for it. neither do parishes [quote name='hot stuff' post='982927' date='May 16 2006, 06:48 PM']But I do believe that it is about catechesis. Catholics believe that once they've been confirmed. they really don't have to learn anything else. And they believe that because the Church really infers that.[/quote]especially now that Confirmation (at least in my diocese) is back in the 2nd grade - so many parents don't see the need for their children to continue in their education. [quote name='hot stuff' post='982927' date='May 16 2006, 06:48 PM']Anyway I rarely rant. But this movie hoopla got to me.[/quote]i totally understand every time any radio/tv stuff about this comes on, i have to switch the channel/station. i'm ready to go crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='Lil Red' post='982935' date='May 16 2006, 06:52 PM'] no criticism was taken the problem is, adult catechesis isn't happening, and most adults don't see the need for it. neither do parishes especially now that Confirmation (at least in my diocese) is back in the 2nd grade - so many parents don't see the need for their children to continue in their education. [/quote] And THAT is the real crisis in our Church. That is what I wish we were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 again, i think it boils down to a crisis of faith (back to George Weigel again ): [quote][i]Every Christian fails on the road to sanctity. Some of us fail often, and many of us fail grievously. In each case, the failure is one of discipleship. Men and women who have truly encountered the Risen Christ in the transforming experience of conversion - an experience that can take a lifetime - live different kinds of lives: They lead the life of a [b]disciple[/b][/i]. ([u]The Courage to be Catholic[/u], George Weigel)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Oh you and Weigel... Did he dedicate a book to you or something? : Yes you and he are right. But that shouldn't stop us from shining a light or two on where we need to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 i think what red is saying is what you are saying hot stuff. People spend maybe an hour in church and an hour in CCD. (maybe) We are talking about 2 hours every week compared to how many hours of T.V., newspaper, books, and movies that are "educating" these people in regards to the faith? it IS frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='982968' date='May 16 2006, 07:08 PM'] Oh you and Weigel... Did he dedicate a book to you or something? : Yes you and he are right. But that shouldn't stop us from shining a light or two on where we need to improve.[/quote]no dedications yet : i never said it shouldn't stop us from shining a light on ourselves. on the contrary. i think we should. but when you are dealing with priests and religious that were formed at seminaries and religious houses from 1960-1980 (thereabouts), we have an uphill climb ahead of us. and we need to be realistic (not pessimistic, but certainly not optimistic) about the future. we obviously can't just "wait them out" (until they die off) because to do so would be failing to catechize them and not helping them out of hell. it will be a balancing act for sure. [quote name='jmjtina' post='982972' date='May 16 2006, 07:13 PM'] i think what red is saying is what you are saying hot stuff. People spend maybe an hour in church and an hour in CCD. (maybe) We are talking about 2 hours every week compared to how many hours of T.V., newspaper, books, and movies that are "educating" these people in regards to the faith? it IS frustrating. [/quote] exactly! people are failing to realize that you need to put just as much time into your faith as you do the tv, radio, newspaper, books, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote]i think what red is saying is what you are saying hot stuff. [/quote] Red and I are on the same page. She knows how much respect and admiration (and envy) I have for her. You do don't you Red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='982979' date='May 16 2006, 07:15 PM']Red and I are on the same page. She knows how much respect and admiration (and envy) I have for her. You do don't you Red?[/quote]you know i do right back atcha, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 poor catechisis was phase 1 phase 2 has begun... the antidote is in the posion...using satan's trap against him. and thats catechisis on the occasion of dumb vinci. Red that quote reminds me of Sundays Gospel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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