Survey: Many believe 'Code' claims

[Seven77]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982906' date='May 16 2006, 05:36 PM']
Yes Seven he is

But the last third aren't going to walk out of the movie thinking "Wow did I get the whole Jesus thing wrong"

I defy people to show me anyone who believes in the presence that would be swayed. It ain't gonna happen!!
We should be less outraged about the stupid movie and more outraged about the lousy catechesis!
[/quote]

Right.. if you have a deep and abiding love for the Eucharist.

But this about the poor uncatechized...its about being our brother's keeper. what if you saw a small child put his hand in a lion's cage?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Seven77' post='982955' date='May 16 2006, 07:01 PM']
Right.. if you have a deep and abiding love for the Eucharist.

But this about the poor uncatechized...its about being our brother's keeper. what if you saw a small child put his hand in a lion's cage?
[/quote]

Seven

That's exactly my point

70% already have their hand in the lion's cage. It has nothing to do with the movie!


Everyone is up in arms about a little bonfire called the Da Vinci Code. All the while they are surrounded by an inferno of uneducated people who think they understand Catholicism.


Its been a five alarmer for a long time now folks

[cappie]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982934' date='May 17 2006, 10:52 AM']
I don't buy it. Not for a second. I spent 10 years working for the Church. I have no problems believing the results of the poll
[/quote]

I've spent 23 years as a priest, 30 years as a Capuchin and sadly I agree. It would not suprise me if a similar study was carried out in Australia the results would be similar.

We have deeper problems than the Da Vinci Code

[avemaria40]

[quote name='cappie' post='982978' date='May 16 2006, 08:14 PM']
We have deeper problems than the Da Vinci Code
[/quote]

I agree with that. I read the Da Vinci Code and I intend to see the movie but it doesn't shake my faith because I know the Truth and I'm not afraid of what some author thinks. There is a little note on the inside cover above the copyright date that says all of it is fiction. Most of the kids I know who believe in this stuff are secular to begin with and the catechesis problem is bigger than the Da Vinci Code. It can add to it if you're not educated enough in the Faith or in the history of the Church, but it isn't the only factor. And this is nothing new, there are a bunch of Sangreal conspiracy books out there and it kind of sounds a little Last Temptation of Christ to me.

[Jaime]

[quote name='cappie' post='982978' date='May 16 2006, 07:14 PM']
I've spent 23 years as a priest, 30 years as a Capuchin and sadly I agree. It would not suprise me if a similar study was carried out in Australia the results would be similar.

We have deeper problems than the Da Vinci Code
[/quote]

And the Capuchin's invented the cappuchino! God bless you Father!!

[kamiller42]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982962' date='May 16 2006, 07:02 PM']
Everyone is up in arms about a little bonfire called the Da Vinci Code. All the while they are surrounded by an inferno of uneducated people who think they understand Catholicism.[/quote]
So why make a bad situation worse? If people have trouble believing in the real presence of Jesus, how does a movie that casts doubt Christianity and the Church help the situation? Seems it's salt on the wound to me.

Before I hear cries of "its's fiction", realize people have succumbed to fiction before, and it wasn't on matters of faith either. Remember the fallout of the fictional film JFK? How about news reports of "Elvis is alive"? How about the results of Goebbels' work?

The problem is Dan Brown has been going around saying his fictional story is based on historical fact. There's the lie. It's really a fictional story based on fiction.

[quote]Its been a five alarmer for a long time now folks[/quote]
I assume this means you are doing you part in educating Catholics as a catechist or otherwise.

P.S. TDVC is junk food for the mind and soul. I'm not going to watch it... for my my own good and my neighbors'.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982865' date='May 16 2006, 06:19 PM']
The book has been around for a few years.
The movie will be around this summer

2/3 of the people you go to mass with don't believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

What do you think is more pressing?
[/quote]

Actually I do believe this is a bit of playing with the numbers. When these polls are conducted as I recall they aren't usually asking if the Catholic goes to Church. I believe things are much better in the pew. But can't say for certain. Still, it's bad there as well.


[/quote]We should be less outraged about the stupid movie and more outraged about the lousy catechesis![/quote]

Amen. That is what the Vatican rep said as well.

[Jaime]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='983721' date='May 17 2006, 12:35 PM']
So why make a bad situation worse? If people have trouble believing in the real presence of Jesus, how does a movie that casts doubt Christianity and the Church help the situation? Seems it's salt on the wound to me.

Before I hear cries of "its's fiction", realize people have succumbed to fiction before, and it wasn't on matters of faith either. Remember the fallout of the fictional film JFK? How about news reports of "Elvis is alive"? How about the results of Goebbels' work?

The problem is Dan Brown has been going around saying his fictional story is based on historical fact. There's the lie. It's really a fictional story based on fiction.
I assume this means you are doing you part in educating Catholics as a catechist or otherwise.

P.S. TDVC is junk food for the mind and soul. I'm not going to watch it... for my my own good and my neighbors'.
[/quote]


I don't think you're quite grasping what I'm saying here.

If 70% of US Catholics don't believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, they aren't Catholic. They are going against dogma.

How does a movie make that situation worse? Are they going to become more "not Catholic"?

Its human nature for people to want to look to something outside and say "Look!! There's the problem!" with outrage and contempt. Its easy. People feel justified without actually having to do anything. But there are a few things that are human nature that are wrong. And this is one of them.

We have real problems within the Church. Our passion and outrage should be directed at ourselves not Dan Brown.

[quote]
I assume this means you are doing you part in educating Catholics as a catechist or otherwise.[/quote]

Good assumption.

And yourself?

[Seven77]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982962' date='May 16 2006, 06:02 PM']
Seven

That's exactly my point

70% already have their hand in the lion's cage. It has nothing to do with the movie!
Everyone is up in arms about a little bonfire called the Da Vinci Code. All the while they are surrounded by an inferno of uneducated people who think they understand Catholicism.
Its been a five alarmer for a long time now folks
[/quote]

the movie threatens to finsh them off for bad. it threatens to snuff out their future conversions. it'll reap what poor catechesis has sown. all im really saying is evangelize these poor souls... which you probably are indeed doing.

so we're on the same page?

[Socrates]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='983728' date='May 17 2006, 11:54 AM']
I don't think you're quite grasping what I'm saying here.

If 70% of US Catholics don't believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, they aren't Catholic. They are going against dogma.

How does a movie make that situation worse? Are they going to become more "not Catholic"?

Its human nature for people to want to look to something outside and say "Look!! There's the problem!" with outrage and contempt. Its easy. People feel justified without actually having to do anything. But there are a few things that are human nature that are wrong. And this is one of them.

We have real problems within the Church. Our passion and outrage should be directed at ourselves not Dan Brown.
Good assumption.

And yourself?
[/quote]
The movie makes things worse by further misleading weak Christians, or those who are undecided, further away from the Truth. It is that much more anti-Catholic/anti-Christian misinformation Catholics will have to counter. Just because many are woefully ignorant about the Faith, doesn't mean it is all ok if further lies are spread against the Faith.

Watching this movie would be like financially supporting Jack Chick tracts or any other anti-Catholic propaganda (Hey, that ridiculous stuff doesn't damage MY faith!).

And hot stuff, I totally agree that the lack of catechesis is a more serious and fundamental problem. But that is setting up the old either/or false dillemna argument (one I see used alot on these boards). Refusing to give money to TDVC by not watching or providing answers to refute the false claims of the book/movie hardly detracts in any way from the mission of catechesis!
That claim is nonsensical - if one refuses to watch the movie, that is 2 1/2 hours and $8.00 that could have been spent on catechesis, if you choose to look at it that way!

I have yet to see a good reason given here why Catholics SHOULD watch this movie, and find it odd that some are being so proudly defiant about watching it (as if they are trying to prove something about themselves).

[Jaime]

I'm not making it an either or situation. I'm saying one is not a situation worth getting your undies in a bundle about.

I'm saying lets address the real crisis. Plus the more you cry out against the movie, the more intrigiuing it becomes to the weak Christian. "What is it that Socrates is so frightened of?" These actions are counterproductive to what you want.

I've stated my personal opinion. People aren't going to be swayed. They're simply going to use the movie as an excuse. Just as some folks use the scandal of a few years ago as an excuse to leave the Church.

But if the movie is boycotted (which it isn't) or it bombs (which it might) everyone cries victory and pats each other on the back. Then a few months goes by and everyone forgets about it.

But we still have people receiving the Eucharist and not believing in it.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='983728' date='May 17 2006, 12:54 PM']
If 70% of US Catholics don't believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, they aren't Catholic. They are going against dogma.[/quote]
I wouldn't quite wave the white flag on them. Some may not believe out of ignorance, not out of rejection of the doctrine.

[quote]How does a movie make that situation worse? Are they going to become more "not Catholic"?[/quote]
Yes it can. It can take someone with luke warm faith, walking in ignorance, and cause them to feel deceived about what little they do know. Their feelings turns to hurt or anger as they believe someone has pulled the wool over their eyes.

While his/her soul might be sick, feeding poison simply adds to the problem.

[quote]Its human nature for people to want to look to something outside and say "Look!! There's the problem!" with outrage and contempt. Its easy.[/quote]
I do not know anyone blaming The Da Vinci Code for causing people to lose their faith. But you certainly don't look the other way when someone with a cold is dancing in the rain on a winter day.

[quote]People feel justified without actually having to do anything.[/quote]
The U.S. Bishops have problems with TDVC. Are they not doing anything? What about me? It's a false assumption to believe those who have problems with the movie are not doing what they can to educate Catholics.

[quote]We have real problems within the Church. Our passion and outrage should be directed at ourselves not Dan Brown. [/quote]
Why not directed at ourselves and those outside influences? Not possible? Not allowed?

[quote]And yourself?[/quote]
Teacher of 2nd and 8th grade and RCIA.

[Jaime]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='984197' date='May 17 2006, 09:20 PM']
I wouldn't quite wave the white flag on them. Some may not believe out of ignorance, not out of rejection of the doctrine.
Yes it can. It can take someone with luke warm faith, walking in ignorance, and cause them to feel deceived about what little they do know. Their feelings turns to hurt or anger as they believe someone has pulled the wool over their eyes.

While his/her soul might be sick, feeding poison simply adds to the problem.
I do not know anyone blaming The Da Vinci Code for causing people to lose their faith. But you certainly don't look the other way when someone with a cold is dancing in the rain on a winter day.
The U.S. Bishops have problems with TDVC. Are they not doing anything? What about me? It's a false assumption to believe those who have problems with the movie are not doing what they can to educate Catholics.
Why not directed at ourselves and those outside influences? Not possible? Not allowed?
Teacher of 2nd and 8th grade and RCIA.
[/quote]


Its not waving the white flag. One needs to state the problem if its going to be resolved. If someone is confirmed Catholic and believes that the Eucharist is symbolic, that person is committing a heresy. This isn't an alarmist position, its canon law

[quote]
an. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

§2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firm-ly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.[/quote]

And what is the result of that belief?

[quote]Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.[/quote]

It isn't the case that people who don't believe in the Eucharist are weak Catholics. They aren't Catholics. Its that serious.


[quote]I do not know anyone blaming The Da Vinci Code for causing people to lose their faith. But you certainly don't look the other way when someone with a cold is dancing in the rain on a winter day.[/quote]

Being swayed by the Da Vinci Code is a symptom
Belief that the Eucharist is symbolic is the disease.

You cure the disease and the symptoms go away.

[quote]The U.S. Bishops have problems with TDVC. Are they not doing anything? What about me? It's a false assumption to believe those who have problems with the movie are not doing what they can to educate Catholics.[/quote]

Sometimes when I get passionate about something, I misspeak. I meant to say people feel justified that they've done something but ignore the real problem. Thanks for the correction.


[quote]
Teacher of 2nd and 8th grade and RCIA.[/quote]

Thank you for that! I hope you're continuing your catechesis as well. (As we all need to)

[cappie]

Christians, there are more worthy fights than Da Vinci


By Miranda Devine
May 21, 2006

IT'S A bummer, with all those great locations in Paris and London, that The Da Vinci Code movie has already been branded a stinker by critics.

At its world premiere last week in Cannes it was pronounced "stodgy", "grim" and "oppressively talky".

Reuters described the audience laughing at a "pivotal moment", while the end of the $125 million thriller was greeted with stony silence. And Garry Maddox in The Sydney Morning Herald said Tom Hanks wore "his worst haircut since Forrest Gump".

More than 40 million people bought Dan Brown's novel, which claims that Jesus Christ married Mary Magdalene and had a child whose descendants live among us. Anything this popular is bound to be detested by professional critics, but clearly there was something about the religious backdrop and puzzle-rich story that struck a chord.

Various Christian spokespeople from Rome to Thailand have railed against the spin-off movie, perhaps inspired to religious uber-sensitivity by mad Muslim rioters offended by Danish cartoons.

But the only outcome of attempts to stop people seeing The Da Vinci Code will be to increase its popularity. If the novel has "shaken the faith" of many Christians, as The King's School headmaster Dr Timothy Hawkes and others seem to believe, then that faith can't have been very durable. A crook meal might have had a similar effect.

There is plenty worse to get worked up about, so Christians should save their energy for other battles.

[url="http://www.smh.com.au/news/miranda-devine/christians-there-are-more-worthy-fights-than-da-vinci/2006/05/20/1147545562556.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1"]SOURCE[/url]

[musturde]

The people who read a fictatious novel and believe everything in it are not exactly the brightest of people.