goldenchild17 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='984225' date='May 17 2006, 08:45 PM'] I'll answer this one because it's easy. I will not risk the faith of many who are unstable to save the one I know think is in error. [/quote] Hence the "private" forum, which protects the "unstable" and still provides an opportunity for evangelization. But this response brings me back to my question. Why are the arguments of the traditionalists prone to swaying an unstable person more than the arguments of a Protestant? The only answer is that they are stronger arguments, otherwise an "unstable" person would be less or equally swayed. [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='984091' date='May 17 2006, 07:10 PM'] There are other sites that debate Magisterial teachings, but we are not one of them. People here are quite willing to explain them, however. Ask away We just don't start by considering them debatable. [/quote] I know and will submit to this. I simply don't understand why, or what sense it makes, when it could do good without doing any harm. I was simply offering my reasoning in case ya'll ever consider changing the rule in the future. I don't need any explaining these things. I need explanations and people responding to my questions about the explanations. I know all about the explanations I used to use them all the time when I met traditionalists(before I became such). I simply see holes in these explanations that I didn't see before, and now need to understand how to patch the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 We don't want to argue because we're very afraid. Not of schismatic positions but of what Cmom will do to us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='984350' date='May 18 2006, 03:20 AM'] Hence the "private" forum, which protects the "unstable" and still provides an opportunity for evangelization. But this response brings me back to my question. Why are the arguments of the traditionalists prone to swaying an unstable person more than the arguments of a Protestant? The only answer is that they are stronger arguments, otherwise an "unstable" person would be less or equally swayed. I know and will submit to this. I simply don't understand why, or what sense it makes, when it could do good without doing any harm. I was simply offering my reasoning in case ya'll ever consider changing the rule in the future. I don't need any explaining these things. I need explanations and people responding to my questions about the explanations. I know all about the explanations I used to use them all the time when I met traditionalists(before I became such). I simply see holes in these explanations that I didn't see before, and now need to understand how to patch the holes. [/quote] Lol, stronger arguments?? Hardly. Again there is nothing wrong with asking questions, people do it hear all the time. But as Catholics we start from the premise that the Church is guided and guarded by the Holy Spirit. If there is something we don't understand, we don't declare ourselves a magisterium of one [ or how ever many] and decide the Church is wrong. We question til WE get it right. It might take a lifetime, it might take a week. WE might never understand it. But guess what, God doesn't ask us to understand, he asks for trust and obedience. Thats why [i]The Silver Chair[/i] is my favorite CS Lewis book. So again, ask. Just don't decide the Magisterium is wrong if you don't agree or yet understand the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 "It's not the sign... It's just the words of the sign." I love The Silver Chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='984389' date='May 18 2006, 08:48 AM'] "It's not the sign... It's just the words of the sign." I love The Silver Chair. [/quote] That's one of my favorites, although the best one is "The Horse & His Boy" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 No... the best one is Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Is this going to turn into CvC debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='984419' date='May 18 2006, 09:51 AM'] No... the best one is Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Is this going to turn into CvC debate? [/quote] No, because I'm right. You just need to admit that I have better taste in Narnia books than you do and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Highly doubtful. Please show me where the USCCB has conclusively stated that HHB is superior to VDT. Your opinion is not going to suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 It's not just MY opinion. I have done an informal poll of others close to me, and they all agree. Well, to be honest, they all agree that I'm weird, but still. They all agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Oh, well, as long as they all agree. I didn't know the issue was up for a vote. You're basing your conclusing on your opinion-- not the solid facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 Goldenchild, they do not care enough about us(not that I am a sede) to "save us". We confront them with the harsh reality and they hide like children with childish excuses. I understand that making it known what peril the Church is currently in is scary to those on the edge of conversion and so a seperate room might be appropriate. But also, those people once they convert will need to learn everything about the situation the Church is in. Or else they might go to fisheaters, where people arent afraid to talk about serious things like men to find out what its all about. Although on the other hand, soon to be converts might find it very interesting that these internet Catholics have such zeal for and knowledge of there faith. They might look at how they guard there Church with such love that they might think there is actually something to it all. When I think of some of the great Saints, i cant imagine them saying I wont talk with you about your issues, your to far out there, you might scare the children, If i remember correctly many devoted there lives to correcting such people, often seeking them out. There is a board for lameness! If ever something was going to discourage converts it would be seeing how frivolous and bored Catholics are. In closing, I understand your fear. I wept when i realized what shambles the Church was in. Remember that the Truth is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='Tarcisius' post='984461' date='May 18 2006, 10:11 AM'] Goldenchild, they do not care enough about us(not that I am a sede) to "save us". We confront them with the harsh reality and they hide like children with childish excuses. I understand that making it known what peril the Church is currently in is scary to those on the edge of conversion and so a seperate room might be appropriate. But also, those people once they convert will need to learn everything about the situation the Church is in. Or else they might go to fisheaters, where people arent afraid to talk about serious things like men to find out what its all about. Although on the other hand, soon to be converts might find it very interesting that these internet Catholics have such zeal for and knowledge of there faith. They might look at how they guard there Church with such love that they might think there is actually something to it all. When I think of some of the great Saints, i cant imagine them saying I wont talk with you about your issues, your to far out there, you might scare the children, If i remember correctly many devoted there lives to correcting such people, often seeking them out. There is a board for lameness! If ever something was going to discourage converts it would be seeing how frivolous and bored Catholics are. In closing, I understand your fear. I wept when i realized what shambles the Church was in. Remember that the Truth is all that matters. [/quote] LoL! How funny this is addressed to me. Umm, maybe you should be aware how many forums I'm on actually taking on such arguments. You can only argue so much against apologetic-type attitudes and it gets old. It's like trying to take on Protestants all the time, just more painful because it's all tracts in and out. * * * The reason that most Traditionalist arguments don't convince me is their apologetic style that doesn't lend to much thinking. This doesn't mean some don't have good arguments or some don't know what they're talking about, but if they get their information from a place like SSPX's American website or the Novus Ordo-you-know-what site it's so obvious. Both of those sites are so biased and also heretical by Trent's own standards, which I can say because I sat down to read it. The problem with most of their arguments is that they're dull and boring and show a lack of any actual learning. I actually enjoy when there is someone who can take me on by actually using Trent or what Vatican II says. It's exactly the problem I find when wanting to discuss Theology of the Body and all anyone ever knows is Christopher West, not the Holy Father's book. What fun is there in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 well it was adressed to all of phatmass, and no, i dont know what other forums you are seeking the truth on, good for you. i understand you being tired of it all, i get very tired of talking with phatmassers but I know they deserve the truth also. It should only be painful though, because of your feelings about the one your arguing with, your sadness at his loss, If you are preaching the truth pain you should not have but bliss. If you are preaching the truth every available angel is at your side urging you on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 The great thing about this website, besides the fact that I've been coming here for over three years (don't let my join-date fool you) is that they think. I've also been on fisheaters for longer than I know...at least a year now I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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