ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 *Nods*...anyway. Yeah. A lot of you probably remember me from awhile ago. And I'm back again o.O But not to start trouble. I have honest questions this time and am interested in their answers. Butyeah...during my previous visits here, almost all of the people I talked to informed me that Hell was simply a plane of existence, so to speak, without God. Not fire and brimstone. Recently, though, I've actually...you know...read things, and I found this: [quote](Revelation 20:11-15) 11 And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha´des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 [b]Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire[/b].[/quote] That seems pretty straightforward to me. If you're not saved, you burn. How can you disagree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 i do hope that you will stick around for answers, and engage in honest and fruitful discussion. God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982487' date='May 16 2006, 11:25 AM'] *Nods*...anyway. Yeah. A lot of you probably remember me from awhile ago. And I'm back again o.O But not to start trouble. I have honest questions this time and am interested in their answers. Butyeah...during my previous visits here, almost all of the people I talked to informed me that Hell was simply a plane of existence, so to speak, without God. Not fire and brimstone. Recently, though, I've actually...you know...read things, and I found this: That seems pretty straightforward to me. If you're not saved, you burn. How can you disagree with that? [/quote] With the words; "Literary Device." I am sincerely happy to have you back, and on top of that asking honest question. My heart burns for the truth as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 You may be happy to know that I'm a Christian now, albeit unofficially and lacking membership in any sect. You will most likely be dismayed to know that I want with all my heart to one day become a member of the Watchtower Society. Oh, and...are you trying to tell me that the explicitly mentioned lake of fire is symbolic of continued life, just imperceptibly bleak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982503' date='May 16 2006, 11:37 AM'] You may be happy to know that I'm a Christian now, albeit unofficially and lacking membership in any sect. You will most likely be dismayed to know that I want with all my heart to one day become a member of the Watchtower Society. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='982506' date='May 16 2006, 12:38 PM'] [/quote] And if I recall, I still harbor a rather great dislike your personality x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Probably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Theo is saying literary device as in "Its a bad place that is absent of the Grace of God but that's too long and is clumsy" Another example that I've used to demonstrate that the bible is not always literal is when Jesus is talking about Judgement Day. He'll gather all the sheep to his right and the goats to his left. Not even the strictest believer that the bible is the literal word of God believes that we'll all change into four legged creatures. Which I find interesting because there are more references to sheep and shepherds by Christ than any other metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='982522' date='May 16 2006, 12:50 PM'] Theo is saying literary device as in "Its a bad place that is absent of the Grace of God but that's too long and is clumsy" Another example that I've used to demonstrate that the bible is not always literal is when Jesus is talking about Judgement Day. He'll gather all the sheep to his right and the goats to his left. Not even the strictest believer that the bible is the literal word of God believes that we'll all change into four legged creatures. Which I find interesting because there are more references to sheep and shepherds by Christ than any other metaphor. [/quote] Yes, but that's clearly a metaphor. The bit about fire and brimstone and "being tormented for eternity" (forgive me if that's a misquote, but it isn't much of one) isn't so obvious, if it's even a metaphor at all. Not once does the Bible mention your belief, but it quite clearly says that Hell is a place of actual physical suffering, and lots of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 But if one is to take the bible to be the literal Word of God. Then why the pass on sheep and goats? It cannot be the literal word of God except for the goat thing. And if sheep and goats get a pass, then maybe the eternal lake of fire might qualify too. I doubt if anyone would argue that hell is pleasant. To be completely absent of God's grace has to be a painful experience. But it is possible that it isn't a lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Either way, I am trying to be VERY good as to not find out if its literal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='982546' date='May 16 2006, 01:17 PM'] But if one is to take the bible to be the literal Word of God. Then why the pass on sheep and goats? It cannot be the literal word of God except for the goat thing. And if sheep and goats get a pass, then maybe the eternal lake of fire might qualify too. I doubt if anyone would argue that hell is pleasant. To be completely absent of God's grace has to be a painful experience. But it is possible that it isn't a lake of fire. [/quote] But my point is that the sheep and the goats are [i]obviously[/i] a metaphor, because transforming all people into furry quadrupeds serves no practical purpose, whereas subjecting the wicked ones to eternal torment in a lake of fire does. But no, "Hell" would not be a pleasant place. But then, what need would the all-merciful God have for a place of eternal unhappiness? Heaven is for God, the Earth, now, is for Man, and one day, the Earth will be a paradise where the righteous live on forever. When the wicked and unrepenetent (sp?) die, however...no, no Hell. The atheist's version of death - unlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenesiusMMVI Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='982552' date='May 16 2006, 01:20 PM'] Either way, I am trying to be VERY good as to not find out if its literal or not. [/quote] Good answer! Good answer! I remembered this quote..from comedian Mark Maron: “I believe in God... just in case. It's like there's some list somewhere and you don't want to be on it. I don't want to say THERE'S NO GOD! and then die and say, Oh, Hi... Is there some kind of community service I can do?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Genesius MMVI' post='982563' date='May 16 2006, 01:31 PM'] Good answer! Good answer! I remembered this quote..from comedian Mark Maron: “I believe in God... just in case. It's like there's some list somewhere and you don't want to be on it. I don't want to say THERE'S NO GOD! and then die and say, Oh, Hi... Is there some kind of community service I can do?” [/quote] Ugh. That quote is disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982557' date='May 16 2006, 12:23 PM'] But my point is that the sheep and the goats are [i]obviously[/i] a metaphor, because transforming all people into furry quadrupeds serves no practical purpose, whereas subjecting the wicked ones to eternal torment in a lake of fire does. [/quote] you don't know that. Why is that obvious? How do you know that God's plan isn't to have everyone turned into sheep that can talk? (We'd have to talk because we have lines) (in sheep's voice) "Baaahht Loh-oh-oh-rd when did we see you hungry ah-ahnd thirsty?" None of us know the mind of God. [quote] But no, "Hell" would not be a pleasant place. But then, what need would the all-merciful God have for a place of eternal unhappiness? Heaven is for God, the Earth, now, is for Man, and one day, the Earth will be a paradise where the righteous live on forever. When the wicked and unrepenetent (sp?) die, however...no, no Hell. The atheist's version of death - unlife. [/quote] Hell exists because of a pesky little doctrine called free will. Without it, there would be no hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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