hey cappie need more help

[zealousrap]

I feel like I'm just banging gongs here. Can you help me respond to this??? the designated people to answer on here can feel free to add whatever too...please do. This is the latest response in an ongoing discussion. Here was my message and her response

(message)
I am not attacking or defending-just clarifying what the Catholic Church believes.
Well I can certainly say that the Eucharist is definately the real body and blood of Christ. It wasn't long before that Jesus was talking to the woman at the well, and told her about living water when she took it literally. He CORRECTED her, saying that he was speaking symbolically. In John 6, he said "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world. The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
When Jesus said this he DID NOT correct them and say that he was speaking symbolically.

(response)
later on in the chapter He says "I am the true Vine." he uses metaphors. When i was catholic, I used to think protestants were so ignorant for not understanding 'what i believed,' but He showed me the truth.

He did correct the woman at the well, but that was to show her her sin of adultery when he said "go call your husband.." she then thinks that He is a prophet until later on realizes that He is the Messiah!

In John 6 He was speaking of his body being offered up because in the Old Testament the Lord had given them manna from heaven..Jesus was saying that He was the Bread of Life.. (He has said also man cannot live on bread alone --food-- but on every word that comes from the mouth of God..therefore we don't need regular food (or a piece of bread proclaimed in one denomination alone to be Jesus' body..but only God's Words).


The Jews grumbled because Jesus had said He had came down from heaven.. so He was not speaking of the bread that He would offer for people to eat of literally, but that He was the bread in the sense that they might feed on Him.. feed on His words.. and receive the Messiah.

30So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'[c]"

32Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

34"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"

43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[d] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

What about those catholics that have not been born again? In John he says that one must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. I used to struggle during mass, praying for the people in there to be saved..even though I did enjoy the mass at one time. and also in 1 Corinthians 11 it talks about receiving the Lord's supper in the right way. I too appreciate the Lord's supper but I don't believe that it's literally Him anymore. People that Paul were talking about were having other foods and not remembering the sacrifice their Lord made.
I agree that all things are possible with God, but one denomination is not the only one who possesses "the body of Christ.." for his servants are the Body. Once one is saved, they become a saint while they are living, not because of something, they have done, but because of God's grace. "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift- not from works, so that no one can boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9


John 6
52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Contrary to the manna which was actual bread, that the Lord God (and Jesus is God since John 1:1 states in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God) gave the people in the desert, Jesus was saying that He was the bread from heaven.. which means that by accepting Him and being in Christ one will live forever. If it was actually his flesh, then those in mass who didn't have a personal relationship with Christ (which i did not for most of my life) would automatically be saved by just eating it, yet Corinthians says to take this practice seriously.. I know that it is a symbolic practice.


60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

He was saying the Spirit gives life and the flesh counts for nothing. His flesh was given up for us all..it is His Spirit that gives us life and only His Spirit. By rejecting 'the eucharist,' according to this Scripture if one is in favor of the Eucharist it seems that I have betrayed Him, but I have not because I have grown so much in deeper intimacy with Him than ever before. I don't remember if I mentioned this, but people have also encountered in prayer a demon who calls himself Jesus, so they have changed their prayers to "the true Lord Jesus Christ" and likewise I have done so too, to avoid a false christ just in case.

John 6: 56:
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.


John 15
1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.


I see the similarities here, both times Jesus speaks of remaining in Him.. Him the flesh and blood..Him the Vine.. they are metaphors. There is not emphasis on the body more except catholics who twist Scripture like to make it so.

Consider this verse too:
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,--1 Timothy 2:5

I therefore do not need to go through a priest or mary to get to the Lord, nor do I need to repent through a priest, nor do I need to have Mary intercede to Jesus for me.. The Bible says that He is our High Priest and Great Intercessor in the book of Hebrews. He intercedes for us. mary bows down to him; not that other way around. That was a big revelation that He gave me since I had at one time (after being born again) enjoyed the rosary because I liked saying prayers for people on it, but He has taken me out of religion and into HIM. I understand that even in the Protestant church there are many issues; neither church is perfect. Likewise the protestant church has become stuck in religion and it seems apparent that there is going to be a great division, the separation of the wheat from the chaffs, so that His Bride can be spotless for His return. I do not know if we will be raptured, etcetera.. I'm open to pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib.. I may not even be that submitted when he returns; I may have to go through the tribulation if there is a rapture. who knows, i'm not worried.. God the Father knows all I know is that I want to be in tune with God the Father's voice.. like Jesus was. I want to be hearing His Voice and speaking His Words.. so that it's all Him and not my flesh..and this is not easy for me to do .. the Bible also says idle chatter grieves the Holy Spirit of God.. so a lot of Christians have not been living it right then, eh? My flesh is weak and stubborn but I am ready to be refined as He sees fit


Also, 2 Macabees 12:46 may justify praying for the dead, but those books were rejected by the canon and we can't except them as inspired..they contain many historical and geographical errors and many other things contrary to Scripture.. such as salvation by almsgiving, suicide, magic, etc. i used to think that when i was a catholic that we had a "Fuller" Bible but that's a lie from hell and i send it back to where it came from.

Also, what about the passage that most know that says "I am the Lord God, you shall have no other gods before me?" Aren't mary and the saints who are prayed to, made into gods of some sort when they are prayed to?
there's also a passage in the Old Testament where a dead person is summoned in a form of necromancy and the guy just says "why have you disturbed me from my rest?" (i can't remember the passage). it must upset mary so much because people are praying to her and not the Savior of mankind, Jesus Christ. She's alive in heaven, yes, but necromancy is a sin and we are not to pray to anyone other than the Lord our God. In Ephesians 6:18 it states to keep on praying FOR all of the saints (Not, to..) and that is because once one is saved, they are santified by the Blood of Jesus and become "a saint," not as a special title, but because of His Grace alone and that is Scriptural. Deut 18:10-11 speaks against witchcraft and casting spells and medium spirits and consulting the dead. some Christians even may think "well, i've never practiced witchcraft and i pray to God alone.." but praying your will above God's is still witchcraft.. we are to ask HIS Will of what we shall pray..and the Holy Spirit does provide these utterances, yes, but that is why He leads me to speak in tongues so that I know it's His Spirit.. then He may tell me what to pray..or if I ask Him His Will or what He'd like me to pray i don't always have to pray in tongues but it sure helps. I never used to think i would get tongues because when i was charismatic catholic they believe it's a lesser gift. Yet a friend of mine prayed for me online to ask God the Father to baptize me in the name of Jesus with the HOly Ghost, and I was like not sure if I would get tongues but I believed Him anyway.. and when i prayed I would get something stuck in my throat kind of like something was trying to come out but never thought I would get tongues.
Then that night, the Lord had told me to fast. I was like "alright, i'll just be praying for my college or something tomorrow.." but the next day in my house I got tongues. And I said "if it's of the devil I rebuke it because I want to glorify You" (Something like that) but it still kept coming back. So that is how I know tongues is the Holy Spirit and of the Lord..also Corinthians mentions it and that's the main reason we know of course but i believe tongues are still effective for today .. as prophecy, etc.

Also following Jesus' template for prayer with the "our Father" prayer is good.. the Lord has adapted me to say it different ways so that it doesn't become religious or a ritual.. because God cannot be put in a box; He has no limits. so approaching the throne of Grace with Thanksgiving and adoration is awesome.. that way He will confirm with us His Words that He wants us to pray. Philippians 4:6-7 also mentions thanksgiving...

[cappie]

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