Ash Wednesday Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='982150' date='May 16 2006, 06:42 AM'] [/quote] Mind if I join you? I find reading about this debate to be of more interest to me than the book and movie itself -- which sounds like a waste of a couple of precious hours of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='982339' date='May 16 2006, 10:15 AM']My bishop [ the new archbishop of Washington DC] said we should just remember the real story of Jesus is far more interesting than any fakes ones out there. He did not say don't go.[/quote] [quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='982442' date='May 16 2006, 10:51 AM']I find reading about this debate to be of more interest to me than the book and movie itself -- which sounds like a waste of a couple of precious hours of my life.[/quote]actually, arguing (or listening/reading it) makes me sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hope4thenew Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Fr. Groeschel told me on Sunday Night Live 2 go c "Over The Hedge" instead... I'm down with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' post='982218' date='May 16 2006, 07:40 AM'] A hypothetical cannot be a sin. You don't know what is in a person's heart. As far as caring about what the Church says or doesn't say, you really should. The Church is her arbitrator on such matters. She will define or remain silent on such issues. To this point, the Church has not made a statement which is binding on conscience. And I don't think that she will. [/quote] I have a pretty good idea about what is in my own heart. And I'm pretty sure no one is asking whether the Church herself should label a particular movie as an occasion of sin, and therefore make it a sin to expose yourself to it. I think the question is whether a Christian conscience should be comfortable with viewing this movie. I don't think so. Not THIS Christian conscience anyway! The question I'm raising now is whether supporting this film with a cash donation is a sinful act. I think the answer is an obvious "yes." The movie (and the book), while intended as entertainment, are intentionally dishonest in content, and worse, are intentionally dishonest in a slanderous manner. Supporting a piece of entertaining artwork with one's money is one thing, but supporting a piece of BAD and SUBVERSIVE artwork with one's money is another thing; I think, a sinful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='hope4thenew' post='982474' date='May 16 2006, 11:15 AM'] Fr. Groeschel told me on Sunday Night Live 2 go c "Over The Hedge" instead... I'm down with that... [/quote] good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelofJesus Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 What if you watch a bootleg copy of it and not contribute money to the movie? I wonder if it is a sin to watch a bootleg copy of a movie that will cause you to sin by watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Sigh, I miss the Index librorum prohibitorum (List of prohibited books).[b] This movie would surely be on it...well may be not because some atheists, such as Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, are not included is due to the general (Tridentine) rule that heretical works (i.e., works that criticize or condemn any element of the Catholic faith) are ipso facto forbidden. That some important works are absent is due to the fact that nobody bothered to denounce them.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Is there really a reason to prohibit people from reading or viewing ideas that contradict their beliefs? Are you that afraid that your faith is so terribly weak, that merely reading or seeing something dubbed "fiction" will turn you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982500' date='May 16 2006, 10:35 AM'] Is there really a reason to prohibit people from reading or viewing ideas that contradict their beliefs? Are you that afraid that your faith is so terribly weak, that merely reading or seeing something dubbed "fiction" will turn you? [/quote] That's so not the point. It's not about an institutional prohibition (though I share the sentiment regarding the librorum prohibitorum). It's about the Christian conscience. Do we or do we not lend credence to a piece of artwork, constructed according to the warped standards of slanderous intellectual dishonesty, by viewing it ourselves? Doesn't anybody realize that Dan Brown is either a total ignoramous, greedy, or an outright deceiver of souls? The stuff in his story is utter carp people! Some scholars are appalled that Doubleday actually published his book! The problem is that there aren't standards of excellence anymore! Should Christians partake of the madness, or act like its garbage and ignore it? Or burn it? [quote name='AngelofJesus' post='982496' date='May 16 2006, 10:30 AM'] What if you watch a bootleg copy of it and not contribute money to the movie? I wonder if it is a sin to watch a bootleg copy of a movie that will cause you to sin by watching it. [/quote] I wouldn't even watch a bootleg copy. For one bootleg's are illegal themselves (thus sinful to buy and watch). Of course maybe the boot leg is better because then you're ripping off the intellectual con-artists who produced the carp (that's my non-Christian side coming out ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='Desert Walker' post='982517' date='May 16 2006, 12:45 PM'] That's so not the point. It's not about an institutional prohibition (though I share the sentiment regarding the librorum prohibitorum). It's about the Christian conscience. Do we or do we not lend credence to a piece of artwork, constructed according to the warped standards of slanderous intellectual dishonesty, by viewing it ourselves? Doesn't anybody realize that Dan Brown is either a total ignoramous, greedy, or an outright deceiver of souls? The stuff in his story is utter carp people! Some scholars are appalled that Doubleday actually published his book! The problem is that there aren't standards of excellence anymore! Should Christians partake of the madness, or act like its garbage and ignore it? Or burn it? [/quote] Burning things is always good. Nothing else says "This frightens me greatly" than attempting to abolish it. The fact of the matter is, the book isn't intended to be taken as fact. Just because it has real-world organizations and isn't set in a long long time ago in a galaxy far away doesn't mean that it isn't fiction. If someone's faith is going to be shattered by a fictitious bit of entertainment, do you really want them to be part of your religion in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ChrisZewe' post='982500' date='May 16 2006, 11:35 AM'] Is there really a reason to prohibit people from reading or viewing ideas that contradict their beliefs? Are you that afraid that your faith is so terribly weak, that merely reading or seeing something dubbed "fiction" will turn you? [/quote] I think that you have hit the nail on the head why Catholics got rid of the black list of books. However, there could be a different, less sinister, reason, which I think would be more obvious to people back in the day...The list that I mentioned above can also be a safe guard to the faithful from accidently. doing so in ignorance, picking up something they should not be reading. For instance if a young catechuman (or new Christian) wanted to find a good essay on the relationship between the Body and the Soul by a good or famous 'Catholic' Scholar they would have a variety of sources. However, the "Catholic Scholar" with the most influence over the modern view of this body/soul relationship is Rene DesCrates. However, DesCartes duality does not rep the Catholic view point as he thought he would, so the list would keep some one like this young person from basing his metaphysical stance on DesCartes. More precisely, those Catholics simply looking to Learn Catholicism would have an easier sorting through non Catholic, or heterodox (heterodoxical if you are Jamie) sources. It would be good to note, that at TAC (arguable the Most Catholic College in the USA) as well as Benedictine College read just about every big name in thier philosophy and theology classes. Further, people like Aristotle and Plato and other Theists were on the list, even though heros like Aquinas and Augustine used them as sources. This evidences that the Church was saying that reading them was not necessarily against the faith, but with out guidance could be confusing. Specifically to the Da Vinci code, I think that the reason the Church Hierarchy has not but this on some sort of list is because doing so would give cause to curiostiy and incite more people to see it. Also frustrating is that the book and the movie, while obviously ficticious (painfully obvious), claim to be fact. Which makes it even more dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Theoketos' post='982533' date='May 16 2006, 12:59 PM'] Also frustrating is that the book and the movie, while obviously ficticious (painfully obvious), claim to be fact. Which makes it even more dangerous. [/quote] [img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/TFOGSON/dvc.jpg[/img] >_> An image is worth a thousand words. Edited May 16, 2006 by ChrisZewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I have no problem with most fiction books. The problem is Dan Brown is a liar and deciever about his sources. Would Hollywood embrace a movie about somebody denying the Holocaust? Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisZewe Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='982544' date='May 16 2006, 01:15 PM'] Would Hollywood embrace a movie about somebody denying the Holocaust? Hardly. [/quote] If they can somehow incorporate carnage and/or female flesh, then I beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dan Brown claims the story is a fictional story based on his "FACTUAL" research. This speaks volumes... "general (Tridentine) rule that heretical works (i.e., works that criticize or condemn any element of the Catholic faith) are ipso facto forbidden". The problem with the lies in books is that people sometimes forget where they read something. Putting the thought in your head now might not affect your faith until weeks, months or years later. With something so important as the salvation of souls it is foolish to take these things so lightly. Many people can easily be swayed by a clever lie. It is a shame how many people have such little respect for the faith that would want to be "entertained" by spiritual porn such as this. I call it spiritual porn because it acts much like porn... it opens one up to an occassion of sin... it is garbage. and this needs to be written again for some here.... [b]"general (Tridentine) rule that heretical works (i.e., works that criticize or condemn any element of the Catholic faith) are [u]ipso facto forbidden[/u]".[/b] God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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