Should Seeing the Da Vinci Code be deemed a sin?

[ironmonk]

[b]1269 [/b]
Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us.76 From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to [u][b]"obey and submit" to the Church's leaders[/b],[/u]77 holding them in respect and affection.78 Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.79



The Catechism does not say "obey and submit to official statements"... it says to "obey and submit".



The Cardinal knows it's complete fiction... What he goes on to say has nothing to do with it not being sinful. He does object to Catholics who would see it as non-fiction to see it. [b]THEREFORE it would be a sin of disobediance[/b]. From his statements AND the other Cardinals statements from the Vatican it verifies that we would be sinning if we saw the movie and thought any of it was true.

Why is context so hard for you to grasp? You ignore so much mentioned. My guess is that you're going to rush out and see it... therefore you have to defend it to get your conscience to agree. Sad.



[quote]Just who do you think that you are, passing judgment on others like that?[/quote]

Just ignore all logic... I'm not passing judgement. Saying something is a sin is not passing judgement.

This is not judgement either but an observation...
I know that your opinions lack logic and comprehension of the Catholic Faith. You seem to be skewed by the liberal virus that plagues our Catholic Faith. But there is hope, with prayer and study maybe one day you'll understand proportional reasoning and our obligation to obey and submit to Church leaders.

[Cam42]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='982123' date='May 16 2006, 07:43 AM']
[b]1269 [/b]
Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us.76 From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to [u][b]"obey and submit" to the Church's leaders[/b],[/u]77 holding them in respect and affection.78 Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.79
The Catechism does not say "obey and submit to official statements"... it says to "obey and submit".
The Cardinal knows it's complete fiction... What he goes on to say has nothing to do with it not being sinful. He does object to Catholics who would see it as non-fiction to see it. [b]THEREFORE it would be a sin of disobediance[/b]. From his statements AND the other Cardinals statements from the Vatican it verifies that we would be sinning if we saw the movie and thought any of it was true.

Why is context so hard for you to grasp? You ignore so much mentioned. My guess is that you're going to rush out and see it... therefore you have to defend it to get your conscience to agree. Sad.
Just ignore all logic... I'm not passing judgement. Saying something is a sin is not passing judgement.

This is not judgement either but an observation...
I know that your opinions lack logic and comprehension of the Catholic Faith. You seem to be skew by the liberal virus that plagues our Catholic Faith. But there is hope, with prayer and study maybe one day you'll understand proportional reasoning and our obligation to obey and submit to Church leaders.
[/quote]

Catholic bot has spoken.....all hail Ironmonk......NOT!!!!

I am a liberal????? Are you nuts?.....don't answer that!!! Have you NEVER read anything that I have written. I am all for submitting to the local Ordinary/compitent authority. I have supported this in the past, however, the compitent authority has NOT deemed this to be a sin.

You have gone on a nice rant, but you have not answered my question.....although I did answer it for you, because I knew this was how you would react.....I wonder why???? Oh yeah, because this is how you ALWAYS react. With ad hominems and ad hominem tu quoque. You also like to set up slippery slopes and strawmen, but that has already been made clear, by your action.

SHOW SOLID PROOF THAT CARDINAL POUPARD OR ANY OTHER BISHOP HAS DEEMED THIS TO BE A SIN REQUIRING CONFESSION OR RELENT.

Your view is extremist and it is alarmist. It is not my lack of catechetical knowledge (that statement actually made me chuckle out loud), but rather your misguided understanding of this paragraph of the Catechism AND faulty application of what is there (because Cardinal Poupard has not said this is sinful) that is appalling.

How about giving some original thought and stop with the cutting and pasting. It is more becoming.

[ironmonk]

Please show proof that the teaching of the Catholic faith allows us to disobey and not submit to Church leaders.

1 + 1 = 2

Vatican cardinals say "don't do it" (one says don't do it if you look at it as non fiction) + CCC 1269 = doing it is a sin if we look at it as non fiction OR if our direct Bishop/Pastor says not to see it

I don't think it would be a mortal sin, but most likely venial... but it is still a sin of disobediance if the criteria are met.

"obey and submit"

There is not really much more to say on the subject... unless you can show us with Catholic writings where it is ok to disobey and not submit.

God Bless.

[Cam42]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='982134' date='May 16 2006, 08:16 AM']
Please show proof that the teaching of the Catholic faith allows us to disobey and not submit to Church leaders.

1 + 1 = 2

Vatican cardinals say "don't do it" (one says don't do it if you look at it as non fiction) + CCC 1269 = doing it is a sin if we look at it as non fiction OR if our direct Bishop/Pastor says not to see it

I don't think it would be a mortal sin, but most likely venial... but it is still a sin of disobediance if the criteria are met.

"obey and submit"

There is not really much more to say on the subject... unless you can show us with Catholic writings where it is ok to disobey and not submit.

God Bless.
[/quote]

Apples and oranges, Max. Apples and oranges.

No one has said that seeing the movie would be sinful. No where. No place. No how.

Again, I will ask and I will continue to do so until you ACTUALLY ANSWER THE PROPOSITION.

SHOW SOLID PROOF THAT CARDINAL POUPARD OR ANY OTHER BISHOP HAS DEEMED THIS TO BE A SIN REQUIRING CONFESSION OR RELENT.

You can't apply CCC #1269 [u]until[/u] the compitent authority actually says this is a sin. Duh.

[Jaime]

[quote]Why is context so hard for you to grasp? You ignore so much mentioned. My guess is that you're going to rush out and see it... therefore you have to defend it to get your conscience to agree. Sad.
[/quote]


Cam legitimately argues his point that its not a sin, you assume that he's trying to rationalize his own *ahem* "sinful" behavior

I legitimately argue that Bush is prochoice and you assume that I must've voted for Kerry and am rationalizing my *ahem" sinful behavior.


There's a pattern here. And it isn't a Catholic one.

[homeschoolmom]

[Cam42]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='982140' date='May 16 2006, 08:35 AM']
Cam legitimately argues his point that its not a sin, you assume that he's trying to rationalize his own *ahem* "sinful" behavior

I legitimately argue that Bush is prochoice and you assume that I must've voted for Kerry and am rationalizing my *ahem" sinful behavior.
There's a pattern here. And it isn't a Catholic one.
[/quote]

DING DING DING DING DING

*points to nose*

[Desert Walker]

Hmm...

It has probably already been said but...

Financially supporting a thing that can lead to someone's apostasy seems glaringly sinful to me.

I don't care what the Church says, or doesn't say, about it. In the end, God will judge us according to our OWN judgement, not the Magisterium's.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Desert Walker' post='982206' date='May 16 2006, 09:23 AM']
Hmm...

It has probably already been said but...

Financially supporting a thing that can lead to someone's apostasy seems glaringly sinful to me.

I don't care what the Church says, or doesn't say, about it. In the end, God will judge us according to our OWN judgement, not the Magisterium's.
[/quote]

A hypothetical cannot be a sin. You don't know what is in a person's heart. As far as caring about what the Church says or doesn't say, you really should. The Church is her arbitrator on such matters. She will define or remain silent on such issues. To this point, the Church has not made a statement which is binding on conscience. And I don't think that she will.

[cmotherofpirl]

I am not going because I would probably start arguing back during the movie, just like I argue with the history channel. I am also not going to give money to support a man who lies about his fictional sources. But I don't see going as sinful unless you are weak in your faith because of your own personal failure to studyit. Now that is sinful.

[Theoketos]

Sigh, I miss the [i]Index librorum prohibitorum.[/i] This movie would surely be on it...well may be not because some atheists, such as Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, are not included is due to the general (Tridentine) rule that heretical works (i.e., works that criticize or condemn any element of the Catholic faith) are ipso facto forbidden. That some important works are absent is due to the fact that nobody bothered to denounce them.

[GenesiusMMVI]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='982134' date='May 16 2006, 08:16 AM']
Please show proof that the teaching of the Catholic faith allows us to disobey and not submit to Church leaders.

1 + 1 = 2

Vatican cardinals say "don't do it" (one says don't do it if you look at it as non fiction) + CCC 1269 = doing it is a sin if we look at it as non fiction OR if our direct Bishop/Pastor says not to see it

I don't think it would be a mortal sin, but most likely venial... but it is still a sin of disobediance if the criteria are met.

"obey and submit"

There is not really much more to say on the subject... unless you can show us with Catholic writings where it is ok to disobey and not submit.

God Bless.
[/quote]

Not one to pile on here.....but I haven't seen an official statement from the Vatican stating that it would be sinful to see it. As I mentioned earlier, what is one to do if their priest and/or Bishop were to say that it is okay to see this movie?

Seems to be varying opinions that land on every spot of this argument.

Then again, what do I know? I've only been Catholic for a month!

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Desert Walker' post='982206' date='May 16 2006, 09:23 AM']
Hmm...

It has probably already been said but...

Financially supporting a thing that can lead to someone's apostasy seems glaringly sinful to me.

[/quote]

Very good point.

[b]1868 [/b]
Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
-by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
-by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
-by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
-by protecting evil-doers.

[cmotherofpirl]

My bishop [ the new archbishop of Washington DC] said we should just remember the real story of Jesus is far more interesting than any fakes ones out there. He did not say don't go.

[Cam42]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='982314' date='May 16 2006, 10:42 AM']
Very good point.

[b]1868 [/b]
Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
-by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
-by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
-by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
-by protecting evil-doers.
[/quote]

Again, Monksie.....

SHOW SOLID PROOF THAT CARDINAL POUPARD OR ANY OTHER BISHOP HAS DEEMED THIS TO BE A SIN REQUIRING CONFESSION OR RELENT.

Thank you.