Somolia

[jasJis]

I'm moving on from Darfur and Iran since I can't get much Catholic Christian thought on it. Let's look at the festering Somolia problem that has been around for more than 15 years.

What do you think the problem in that Country is?
Do you think that Christians (or specifically Catholics) should have been presssing world powers or the UN to do something?
What could or should be done?

Are you aware that Muslims have now begun to take advantage of the lack or government and athority and are the third armed force in Mogidishu?

[Era Might]

Feed them.

[Jaime]

Well Somalia is a muslim country Jas . I'm guessing that at least one of the other two armed forces is made up of muslims as well. Its also one of the poorest countries in the world.

Feeding them is the first and best option

[jasJis]

Read recent articles on Somolia. (And I try to stick to AP feeds) The two prior power factions were not split on muslim/non-muslim lines. The Third group is Islamic and is being supported by el Quiada and it's platform is the Islam will bring orde to the chaos.

So how do we feed them? Why haven't they been fed for years? Is the problem that we don't give them enough food to eat?

Just saying 'Feed Them' is too simplistic. If your brother fell in a well, do you just send food down to him and call it quits? He'll stay alive. Or do you work to get him out as the long term solution?

Edited May 12, 2006 by jasJis

[Era Might]

[quote name='jasJis' post='979314' date='May 12 2006, 02:37 PM']
If your brother fell in a well, do you just send food down to him and call it quits?
[/quote]

For the meantime, yes.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Era Might' post='979316' date='May 12 2006, 12:40 PM']
For the meantime, yes.
[/quote]

On a sabbath he went to dine at the home of one of the leading Pharisees, and the people there were observing him carefully.
In front of him there was a man suffering from dropsy.
Jesus spoke to the scholars of the law and Pharisees in reply, asking, "Is it lawful to cure on the sabbath or not?"
But they kept silent; so he took the man and, after he had healed him, dismissed him.
Then he said to them, "Who among you, if your son or ox falls into a cistern, would not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?"
But they were unable to answer his question.

[Era Might]

Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink."

[jasJis]

The point is, they need MORE than only food. They are in need and only a little is being given. If a man asks for a rag, give him your cloak too. Once you put your hand to the plow, do not turn back.

The Good Samaritan did more than dress the Jew's wounds. He carried him to the innkeeper and gave silver for his cares. He did not say that is enough from him, he said do all the man needs and the Samaritin would pay the entire bill.

The Good Shepherd does not just lead the flock to fine pasture and sweet water, he protects the flock from the wolf and will go and find the one lost sheep.

God does not give only a crumb, he gives a feast.

[Era Might]

While we're off worrying about leading the flock to wherever, the flock is starving to death and getting eaten by flies.

Everything in due time. It would be great if Somalians can be fat and rich and employed like Americans. But, realistically, for the meantime, let's worry about putting some food in their stomach and maybe some clean water to drink.

Start small, help them to stop living like animals, and then try tearing down the barn and building a house.

We have the same problem in America. Social programs and rhetoric are all well and good. But we need people to get in the streets and help PEOPLE. Real people don't want impersonal structures. They want respect and compassion. Realistically, are we doing to change Somalia in the next generation or so? Probably not. We can work toward long term changes, but for the people alive now, we need to worry about helping them to live life with a little more human dignity. They're probably going to remain in third-world conditions, but bringing a cup of cold water to someone to help relieve their suffering, even only a little, will merit a great reward.

[jasJis]

Era, you are blind to the problem. What is the point of eating a meal when you can have a bullet put in your head tonite? Why do they have to rely on water from a can because they cannot dig a well?

Why serve a nice meal to the hungry people on a plane that has just run out of fuel?

American egos, grown obese on unbridled freedoms and wealth think the rest of the world just needs a good bath and a hot meal. They think that their occasional hunger pang is equal to the thirst for dignity and autonomy in another man's heart. A meal made with your own hand is more satisfying than the feast given by your neighbor.

If you expect a reward for giving a cup of water, how much greater is your reward for helping your neighbor dig a well.

You treat a symptom, but the disease still rages. Why are they hungry and thirsty? Who is killing them? You say feed them like no food is being sent. What do you know about Somolia? Why has the UN pulled out their Aide people? Feed them. HOW? Are you aware of what happened to the tons of aid that was sent to Somolia after the tsunami? Feed them. HOW?

Edited May 12, 2006 by jasJis

[Era Might]

That's not exactly a good philosophy to live by. We can all die at any moment. That doesn't mean we should give up on eating and drinking.

What do YOU want to do? And how long is it going to take? Are you gonna wage war on evil men in Somalia and liberate them like we liberated Iraq? And then will you feed them? What of the thousands who died in your liberation?

I'm not sure what you have in mind, but the Church's answer has never been war and politics, but Christ. What's the greatest thing we can do for Somalia? Bring Christ to them, in word and in deed. The way you framed the question, petitioning the UN, seems in my mind more than just teaching people to dig a well. Massive social reforms would take a hundred years, maybe two or three or four. I don't disagree that we need to get the ball rolling as an international community, but we also need to be realistic. "The poor you will always have with you".

What did Mother Teresa do? Is Calcutta any more well off today than it was 50 years ago? Not really. And all those people she helped, her small works to relieve their sufferings, what do they think of Mother Teresa? Visit a nursing home sometime. The people there don't want to live in palaces with around-the-clock care. It would be nice, but it's not realistic. They want dignity, they want respect from the staff, and a lot of them want people to visit them and treat them like human beings. If they could have that small measure of human dignity, they would die in peace.

[jasJis]

I guess the answer for you is that anything significant will take too long. Don't plant an acorn because you can't build a house out of it.

Word and deed of Jesus? Did Paul just write letters to the Gallations because most of them wouldn't listen anyway? Or did he travel there and helped establish a Christian Community that did not depend on the mere letters from Paul for grace.

Every Crusade was wrong and unjustifed.
The World should not have turned against Hitler.
All war is evil.
All death is unjust.

Edited May 12, 2006 by jasJis

[Era Might]

You asked if Christians should have done more to get the UN to do something. To do what? What can the Church do? Do you think the Bishop's don't plead incessantly with world leaders to help the poor? The Bishops of Africa and Latin America know what their people go through. There's nothing the Church can do about broad social reforms. That is in the hands, ultimately, of politicians.

What the Church can do, what she has always done, is preach Christ and him crucified.

[quote name='jasJis' post='979480' date='May 12 2006, 04:55 PM']
Every Crusade was wrong and unjustifed.
The World should not have turned against Hitler.
All war is evil.
All death is unjust.
[/quote]

Is that what this is about, going to war with Somalia?

What exactly do YOU want to do?

And nobody does more for the poor throughout the world than the Catholic Church. Not with words. Hands-on getting down in the trenches dirty.

[AngelofJesus]

I too am outraged of the conditions in Somalia, but I think you have just asked the same thing we were going to ask you. HOW?
What is the point of sending food when it only serves to further entrench the power of those gangsters? You made a good point in saying "A meal made with your own hand is more satisfying than the feast given by your neighbor.", but I think also think you can also say "a government made with its own people is more satisfying than the government given by their neighbor."

These people need to rise up and not accept the conditions there. I think the whole world is at their doorstep waiting to see a stable government installed so they can pour out all the aide they need. They need to take their country in their own hands and say no to oppression. What they need is a leader that will deliver them and not get killed in the process. Alas, they are all divided amongst themselves. Leaders rise to become gangsters themselves and the oppression continues. U.N. went in to give peace to the land and were attacked by the people as well. I think world leaders are concerned but are unable to play 3 sided chess where it is you vs gangs+civilians.

[Socrates]

[quote name='AngelofJesus' post='979500' date='May 12 2006, 03:11 PM']
I too am outraged of the conditions in Somalia, but I think you have just asked the same thing we were going to ask you. HOW?
What is the point of sending food when it only serves to further entrench the power of those gangsters? You made a good point in saying "A meal made with your own hand is more satisfying than the feast given by your neighbor.", but I think also think you can also say "a government made with its own people is more satisfying than the government given by their neighbor."

These people need to rise up and not accept the conditions there. I think the whole world is at their doorstep waiting to see a stable government installed so they can pour out all the aide they need. They need to take their country in their own hands and say no to oppression. What they need is a leader that will deliver them and not get killed in the process. Alas, they are all divided amongst themselves. Leaders rise to become gangsters themselves and the oppression continues. U.N. went in to give peace to the land and were attacked by the people as well. I think world leaders are concerned but are unable to play 3 sided chess where it is you vs gangs+civilians.
[/quote]
True.

The fact is that while the U.S. and other countries have been sending food to Somalia for many years, the evil and corrupt leaders there actually horde the food supplies and keep them from the people, using the food and starvation as leverage to keep in power. They actually run a racket whereby they use the starving conditions of the people to enrich themselves through foreign aid. Until the corrupt rule of the warlords is ended, there will not be an end to this problem.

Liberals tend to see the problems in Somalia and other similar countries as being caused simply by the rich Western nations failing to share. Simply sending ever more food and money to these countries is seen as the solution. However, until the problem of corruption in the leadership of these countries is ended, the problem will be perpetuated.