Is This Even English?

[Bruce S]

I needed to look something up, so I went to the OFFICIAL Vatican site.

OK. I'm stupid. I only have post graduate degrees and a modicum of English skills, so is there a single person alive that can deciper this OPENING statement from the Code?

It is on CUSTOM becoming the Law:

Code of Canon Law

IntraText - Text

BOOK I. GENERAL NORMS LIBER I. DE NORMIS GENERALIBUS

TITLE II. CUSTOM (Cann. 23 - 28)

TITLE II.

CUSTOM (Cann. 23 - 28)

Can. 23 Only that custom introduced by a community of the faithful and approved by the legislator according to the norm of the following canons has the force of law.

Can. 24 §1. No custom which is contrary to divine law can obtain the force of law.

§2. A custom contrary to or beyond canon law (praeter ius canonicum) cannot obtain the force of law unless it is reasonable; a custom which is expressly reprobated in the law, however, is not reasonable.

Can. 25 No custom obtains the force of law unless it has been observed with the intention of introducing a law by a community capable at least of receiving law.

Can. 26 Unless the competent legislator has specifically approved it, a custom contrary to the canon law now in force or one beyond a canonical law (praeter legem canonicam) obtains the force of law only if it has been legitimately observed for thirty continuous and complete years. Only a centenary or immemorial custom, however, can prevail against a canonical law which contains a clause prohibiting future customs.

Can. 27 Custom is the best interpreter of laws.

Can. 28 Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 5, a contrary custom or law revokes a custom which is contrary to or beyond the law (praeter legem). Unless it makes express mention of them, however, a law does not revoke centenary or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.

Argh.

And this is the OPENING paragraphs only. It gets even more convoluted.

I bet you Catholics don't even know what is in that book. No human alive could wade through this and come out with a clear understanding on what the Catholic Church wants people to believe.

Argh. Again.

[hyperdulia again]

:lol:

Bruce, Canon Law confuses me to. and just think they're are actually two codes right now and someday there'll be 22.

[Circle_Master]

I'm just sitting here drooling looking for someone to disagree with me so I can jump on them again, or at least have SOMETHING to post. Maybe I should start doing my precourse graduate work! AHHHH I have like 3 days to do it now. (yeah right, good luck me).

I like authors who try to write as simply as possible.

[Bruce S]

This is the ONLY stuff that makes the IRS rules and regulations look simple

Guess what? We don't even have ANY cannon law, in fact, my denomination ONLY requires you believe in 16 key points.

And you can learn them all in about 10 minutes, and Catholics would agree to most of them instantly.

And the best part, is I don't have to take a post graduate course in doubletalk/stutterstepping/paranormal deciphering to understand them.

I guess they could keep them all in Latin, which would simplify it more, that way NO ONE would even have to pretend to understand it.

Edited December 29, 2003 by Bruce S

[hyperdulia again]

:lol:

[Paladin D]

You can really learn how to read complicated documents, by just reading Vatican documents. :lol:

[JP2]

Now Bruce,

when you say "deciper"--what exactly do you mean?

The text's meaning is plain...perhaps you need to pray a bit to find the meaning.

God Bless!

JP2

[frozencell]

Now Bruce,

when you say "deciper"--what exactly do you mean?

The text's meaning is plain...perhaps you need to pray a bit to find the meaning.

God Bless!

JP2

I agree. Although it is not written in the most "dumbed-down" way, I really don't see how they're trying to confuse anyone intentionally as is implied by Bruce. And I don't have a degree in anything, but I do know how slow down my reading and re-read in the event that I don't initially follow what is being said. :D

[jmjtina]

I bet you Catholics don't even know what is in that book. No human alive could wade through this and come out with a clear understanding on what the Catholic Church wants people to believe.

Ever heard of a canon lawyer? You and I don't have to come out with a clear understanding, it's already been done for us. It's like me opening a graduate course of medicine and complaining that I can't understand it FULLY, so obviously NO one in medicine can understand. There are doctors who know AND teach.

Argh. Again.

I saw Pirates of the Carribean too!

If you want it in "simple laymans" terms, try reading some things by Frank Sheed. I do.

BTW, what were you looking up?

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Canon Law is a set of Church rules. If you're looking for Catholic beliefs, you're in the wrong place. I think you're looking for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which can be found here:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

[dUSt]

Guess what? We don't even have ANY cannon law, in fact, my denomination ONLY requires you believe in 16 key points.

And you can learn them all in about 10 minutes, and Catholics would agree to most of them instantly.

Hence the reason I'm Catholic. If I honestly thought that the teachings of Christ could be condensed into 16 points, and taught in 10 minutes, I too would be part of whatever denomination would best suite my lifestyle.

As a faithful Catholic, my journey to know Christ better will continue until the day I die.

And the best part, is I don't have to take a post graduate course in doubletalk/stutterstepping/paranormal deciphering to understand them.

Who says you have to understand them to be a good Christian? Do you have to understand binary code to use a computer?

Anyway--I'm happy that you're going to the source to learn about the Church. Keep it up!

God bless.

[Anna]

Well, Bruce,

Lemme take a shot at this.

I was educated through the 8th grade in Catholic schools, then sailed through public high school and community college before marrying and raising a family, so if I have enough grey cells left over, and if you're sincere in wanting to understand it, I'll explain it in simple, Catholic housewife terms for ya.

Norms are guidelines for our worship services, established by collective groups of bishops. In the United States, we have the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, for instance.

In the U.S., the bishops have decided that the 'norm' for receiving Holy Communion is "standing." However, if there is long accepted (like 30 years) local parish or diocesan custom of kneeling to receive, that is acceptable.

If we decided to do a form of sashaying or do-see-doing, or promenading up to receive Holy Communion, that would certainly be contrary to canon law, as it would be disrespectful to the nature of Catholic worship and to the Divine Lord Who we approach to receive.

So no act that is contrary to divine law or canon law can become a norm.

And that is really a very over simplified and rather far-fetched example, just to keep it understandable.

Pax Christi. <><

[PedroX]

Anna, you rock! Although the thought of you do-see-doing or promenading up the aisle has be laughing out loud. Keep being strong in His Grace.

peace... :tiphat: (cosest I could find to square dancing!)

[jmjtina]

Well, Bruce,

Lemme take a shot at this.

I was educated through the 8th grade in Catholic schools, then sailed through public high school and community college before marrying and raising a family, so if I have enough grey cells left over, and if you're sincere in wanting to understand it, I'll explain it in simple, Catholic housewife terms for ya.

Norms are guidelines for our worship services, established by collective groups of bishops. In the United States, we have the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, for instance.

In the U.S., the bishops have decided that the 'norm' for receiving Holy Communion is "standing." However, if there is long accepted (like 30 years) local parish or diocesan custom of kneeling to receive, that is acceptable.

If we decided to do a form of sashaying or do-see-doing, or promenading up to receive Holy Communion, that would certainly be contrary to canon law, as it would be disrespectful to the nature of Catholic worship and to the Divine Lord Who we approach to receive.

So no act that is contrary to divine law or canon law can become a norm.

And that is really a very over simplified and rather far-fetched example, just to keep it understandable.

Pax Christi. <><

:notworthy:

[Anna]

:blush: awwwwwww. shucks.

Pax Christi. <><