The "ex-cathedra" Quandry

[beng]

We don't try to even play that game. Sorry. It is YOUR hangup that every passage has to have an "official stamp of approval" not ours.

Now, personally, FOR ME ALONE, I read the Bible, reflect, try to get the BIG PICTURE and not play Jewish scribe fighting over every "Jot and Tittle"

The BIG PICTURE is SO SIMPLE it eludes all but a few.

You do NOT need man, works, or actions to GET salvation. You don't have to believe anyone, or anything, but that Jesus came, died, and did so to to satisfy God's demands from the Old Testament regarding sin.

Once you confess with your mouth, begin repenting, continue to invite the Holy Spirit [He is the operative element here, not doctrine] everything flows from that. Works come from being Born Again, works do not determine salvation, denomination doesn't determine salvation.

ALL OF US, wasting our time here, trying to impress each other with how smart we are, quoting people from a thousand years ago, trying to wade through legalese, is PROOF that the HS is alive and working in ALL of our hearts.

Otherwise, we ALL HAVE VASTLY better things to do.

And Mary had kids. grin....

Good.

You have admitted the discescion of Protestantism. Whihc is condemned by Paul.

Enjoy

Edited December 29, 2003 by beng

[Bruce S]

So why are you here?

Reminding myself why I left I guess.

Slumming?

Self abuse, I COULD join Opus Dei and submit to bodily moritfication, but this is less painful. And I get to keep whatever meger resources I have without becoming a Numerary too.

:wacko:

[Circle_Master]

Yes and no.

We do not disagree on Scripture that the Church has definitively interpreted for us.

However the rest is up discussion and disagreement within the bounds of orthodoxy.

exactly. Why doesn't the Catholic Church just definitively interpret the rest of Scripture. Wouldn't that be very helpful?

[hyperdulia again]

circle THAT would take centuries.

[Bruce S]

I have to laugh at this. Do you read the Bible? How does you statement 'You do Not need ... works,' jibe with 'Faith without works is dead'. And the clear admonishment that even satan believes in God.

Protestants define "works" as good deeds, helping the poor. WE look at REQUIREMENTS like sacraments as "works too" so we have different languages we talk, that leads to much confusion.

That is quite another thread.

So, where does one find the entire body of Ex-Cathedra rulings again? I'm waiting for the official list of them.

I'm not going to get into Mormon's and JW's, we can agree that they are not worth including in the body of Protestantism, so why are cults to be defended?

Most of MY fellow Protestants think the Catholic Church is a cult, I don't, not at all. Fully and completely Christian.

With a lot of baggage piled on over the centuries, I take heat from other Protestants on defending Catholics and the Catholic Church on that one.

[Circle_Master]

circle THAT would take centuries.

well, you've had 20 centuries already. Get cranking! :o

[jasJis]

Reminding myself why I left I guess.

Slumming?

Self abuse, I COULD join Opus Dei and submit to bodily moritfication, but this is less painful. And I get to keep whatever meger resources I have without becoming a Numerary too.

If your are saying you were once Catholic, I'd say it's the Holy Spirit bringing you back so you can come to know the Truth. See, the graces you received in the Sacraments are real and aren't entirely dependent on your will or faith. They bear more fruit with your willing participation, but hey, God's patient, and we'll try to be. :rolleyes:

[cmotherofpirl]

Protestants define "works" as good deeds, helping the poor. WE look at REQUIREMENTS like sacraments as "works too" so we have different languages we talk, that leads to much confusion.

That is quite another thread.

So, where does one find the entire body of Ex-Cathedra rulings again? I'm waiting for the official list of them.

I'm not going to get into Mormon's and JW's, we can agree that they are not worth including in the body of Protestantism, so why are cults to be defended?

Most of MY fellow Protestants think the Catholic Church is a cult, I don't, not at all. Fully and completely Christian.

With a lot of baggage piled on over the centuries, I take heat from other Protestants on defending Catholics and the Catholic Church on that one.

You can start by reading Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ott.

[Circle_Master]

Ya know what? :noidea:

all these smiley faces definately make posts more humerous to read and the debates a little less flammatory :fishslap:

:crackup: :wavey: :sumo:

[jasJis]

So, where does one find the entire body of Ex-Cathedra rulings again? I'm waiting for the official list of them.

You've refused to accept what Cahtolics say Ex-Cathedra rulings are. Why should Catholicism revise itself to meet your requirements?

[Bruce S]

If your are saying you were once Catholic, I'd say it's the Holy Spirit bringing you back so you can come to know the Truth.

WE AGREE!!!

Now...what TRUTH I get, might not be THE truth you think I'm getting.

The TRUTH that is coming back to me is that the Catholic Church is IMPOSSIBLE for rational people to feel comfortable with, the obtuse circles within circles, clouded within octagons held forth as proof...

Hey, I had a hard time with the snake handling too, those critters are UGLY, but then the rolling on the floor was not too bad, killed a few snakes too when the chubby babes flew backwards slain in the spirit.

We even had one who SWORE that Mary appeared ... we told her that was a Catholic thing, so she started seeing Elijah, we had to accept that one, couldn't quite nail down if Elijah apparitions were Protestant approved or not.

I am reminded of my studies in Gnosticism, spent some time there too, to understand what the hubbub was all about, the Gnostics were EASY to understand compared to getting definitive answers on some BASIC questions.

Like. Where is the OFFICIAL AND TOTAL list of what is dogma? Something some poor slob like me with only a Master's degree can understand?

I don't have time to obtain a post graduate degree in Latin or Greek, so English will do fine.

Or do I have to spend the rest of my life wading through the Vatican secret archieves...oops, they won't let ME in, forgot, I'm a heretic.

[hyperdulia again]

protestants are allowed in. you have to be going for a specific reason tho'. no fishin'.

[jasJis]

I am reminded of my studies in Gnosticism, spent some time there too, to understand what the hubbub was all about, the Gnostics were EASY to understand compared to getting definitive answers on some BASIC questions.

Like. Where is the OFFICIAL AND TOTAL list of what is dogma? Something some poor slob like me with only a Master's degree can understand?

I don't have time to obtain a post graduate degree in Latin or Greek, so English will do fine.

Or do I have to spend the rest of my life wading through the Vatican secret archieves...oops, they won't let ME in, forgot, I'm a heretic.

If all you want is a written set of rules and regulations, that are self defined, self limiting, self authorizing, then you simply want a Written God.

I think that alread is some ancient theological heresy. Lay off the theology for a while and work a bit on philosophy.

Better yet, give me a complete and scientific definition of 'love' and it's effects.

[Bruce S]

Better yet, give me a complete and scientific definition of 'love' and it's effects.

Love = enfatuation = dating = marriage = babies = no respect for you = girlfriend = divorce = poverty = remarriage = more babies = >

No wonder you need annulments. :lol:

[cmotherofpirl]

Love = enfatuation = dating = marriage = babies = no respect for you = girlfriend = divorce = poverty = remarriage = more babies = >

No wonder you need annulments.

So your church members have all married for life?