Jake Huether Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I do still find it humerous though that you think Joseph would marry someone who has taken 'vows of virginity'. And also that you think 'before they came together' doesnt imply sexual relations. I guess Joseph and Philo were a bit confused when they wrote about coming together (the phrase) meaning sexual relations. I'm amuzed that you find the Holy Family "humerous". And why would it be so silly for a just and Righteous man like Joseph to marry a woman who has taken a vow of virginity. For your info, it wasn't the first, nor was it the last case. Mary and Joseph married not to pro-create, but to fulfill the will of God that His only begotten Son would have a earthly Mother and father. There are numeroulse saints who married legally (yet not Sacramentally - which requires consumation) and still maintained their virginity. Do you think it silly that a man might head the call of God and marry without the intent to have sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 :D Thanks, Jake. Circle labels everything he can't answer as "false" or "insulting," as you'll soon come to know for yourself. When the going gets tough, he throws the blame back on someone else (like moi ). Glad you're back in the trenches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 JasJis - I started working on a response, lost it, and have now decided I really am so .. unconcerned about this point that I'll just give it to you if you want. It really doesn't matter to me. Yes, I really would like it. I really believe it may be an opportunity for grace for one of us, and I'm very open to the idea it will be an opportunity of grace for me. As I've said, I have lot's on non-Catholic Christian friends. It could be enlightening and helpful in discussions with them. Read back over you last few posts. This site has way too many faithful and knowledgable Catholics to be overwelmed by the Prot shot-gun attack. Pick a subject and work it through diligently to the best of your ability. Be sincere and care about it, or don't post. PM ReformationNow or Bro.Adam, both non-Cath Christians who have spent, or spend a lot of time here and have done that. Ask them how they did it. In fact, they've both have seemed more intimately knowledgeable about their faith then Bruce. Integrity IS a grace, and one has to give credit where credit is due. They both debated and disagreed with us with integrity and class. It was a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Jake, I have four long posts to respond to. It would take me at least 2 hours to go through all the Scripture and build a coherent argument to deal with all of them. This is not something I really feel like doing. And, when you say "I MIGHT read it" you don't know what you are referring to. It is Liko's post I said that to, and it is because typically he has false information in his and they are very flammatory and insulting. Likos has never to anyones knowledge EVER posted false information on this or any other website. Its not a requirement that you like his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 (edited) Firstly, Jake, welcome home! Glad to see you posting on this thread, upholding the honor of the Most Blessed Mary, Ever Virgin! Katholikos, I have copied and saved onto my computer your excellent Scriptural cross-referencing post which teaches the parents of those called "brothers" of Jesus in the Bible. With your permission, I will use it in the future, should the subject of Mary having other children "ever" come up again...and again, and again, and....! I owe kudos to someone else here...I can't scroll far down enough to find out who...but you know who you are...That quote from Augustine is a priceless gem. I shall save that on my computer as well! Too bad the phatmass archives and the old phorum are gone, so many magnificent posts there... As I recall, the rather anti-Catholic fundamentalist who was last ridiculing the Church's teaching on Mary's Perpetual Virginity soon left phatmass after his humiliating defeat on that thread with the posting of Likos' Biblical proofs...He just couldn't take being wrong on that one! But even he did not accuse you of being wrong or posting false information. The proofs are right there, verse by verse, to be accepted with humility, or to be rejected with pride. Some people just refuse to accept that Christ founded a Church that still teaches His Truths to this very day. So glad to be Catholic, and to have great Catholic friends like y'all! Pax Christi. <>< Edited January 6, 2004 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 How could Mary have other children when she is a perpetual virgin? It is written (Ezech. 44:2): "This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it; because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it." Expounding these words, Augustine says in a sermon (De Annunt. Dom. iii): "What means this closed gate in the House of the Lord, except that Mary is to be ever inviolate? What does it mean that 'no man shall pass through it,' save that Joseph shall not know her? And what is this--'The Lord alone enters in and goeth out by it'--except that the Holy Ghost shall impregnate her, and that the Lord of angels shall be born of her? And what means this--'it shall be shut for evermore'--but that Mary is a virgin before His Birth, a virgin in His Birth, and a virgin after His Birth?" God Bless, CatholicAndFanatical CatholicandFanatical, You are Catholic and Fantasical... oh, that's not a word... well, it still fits! Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Pick a subject and work it through diligently to the best of your ability. Be sincere and care about it, or don't post. What jasJis said. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I'll repost this. Pay special attention to the last paragraph. Our Lady's ever-virginity points to the uniqueness of Christ. Our Lady's Immaculate Conception points to the mystery of the incarnation, it is all about the God-Man. His Mother could have had other children without it affecting her holiness or His divinity, but the faact remains that there is no evidence to say she had other children and the constant teaching of the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church (not to mention the Muslims) is that she was "Virgin, Ever-Virgin". The New Eve as Christ was the New Adam. And yes, I imagine that Saint Joseph a man with all the normal impulses and desires of his sex and married to a woman he loved, must ahve found her virginity (and living with two sinless people) to be a bit trying. I also think she may have found it trying as well (she was tempted in the same ways that we all are); but she realized the importance of the role she had been given as Mother of God, it wouldn't have been fair to her other children. There's something from one of the apocryphal books about a nurse who helped with the delivery of Our Lord doubting Our Lady's virginity. She checked and I do believe her entire hand was consumed by flames. Might give a new perspective on Saint Joseph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 I thought there were a few here which actually spoke in love, and a few that called me brother. I can see now by how everyone has responded that it was all lies. Way to keep up the image of Christ. Now I know another reason why I must clarify when I evangelize that I am not a Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 it means i have answered every single opposition brought up to me so far on this board. and i find i don't have time to work on one thread against four detailed responses and everyone accuses me of 'running away' on top of numerous other insults. i expected more courtesy to say the least. much more. why should i even bother here when everyone is so quick to point a finger, yet never at themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 actually, what am i talking about. most are kids here anyway, i should understand them to act that way. nevermind, keep going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 actually, what am i talking about. most are kids here anyway, i should understand them to act that way. nevermind, keep going Half of Phatmass' active posters are adults. 20+, even up in the 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 i stand corrected, most are not kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 CatholicandFanatical, You are Catholic and Fantasical... oh, that's not a word... well, it still fits! Pax Christi. <>< aww thank you Anna, I appreciate that. I am glad it helped. Im just waiting for the reply to it. Circle, dont get all bent out of shape over this. It is typical, not saying you do this all the time, but typical of protestants to come on this board and when we give solid facts and scriptural references to our argument, they always say "I dont care anyway" Or "Its Un-Needed" or "Ill get to it when I have time" and at the same time they use that excuse they reply to 10 different threads, but they dont have time to reply to the important one. I like you Circle, you actually dont seem to flame as much as Bruce does. But when we posts facts and scripture references, we dont expect an "I dont believe that" or a "You're wrong" statement unless you give us references as to WHY you think it is wrong. yea our posts are long, gotta get use to it. reading is good. works on patience, and thats a virtue. God Bless, CatholicAndFanatical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now