Hypothetical Question

[LSW]

Ok. Lets say that one day we elect a pope that will clearly teach a heresy. Maybe something like there is no Trinity or that Jesus wasn't divine, ect. Is there a "system" in place to declare tha pope a heretic and remove him? How would this be accomplished? Or is there no such thing because this could never happened because of infalibility?

I would like to hear some thoughts.

[Church Punk]

I have thought about this also. What would happening if the infalible dogmas of the Church were to fail? That is what would happen if anti-pope proclaimed something infallible that contraditics Catholic Dogma? is there a fail safe?

[Nathan]

My understanding is that this could never happen. Because of the guarentee of papal infallibility, the pope teaching heresy on matters of faith and morals is an impossibility. The Holy Spirit makes sure of that.

[Myles Domini]

[url="http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/section9.html"]The Vatican Definition[/url] by Venerable Cardinal Newman. Perhaps worth a read in this discussion?

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

Pray for a greater trust in the Holy Spirit.

He will not fail the church, and lead us into error.

SHALOM

[cmotherofpirl]

This is where papal infallibility comes into play. God won't let in happen: remember the gates of hell part?

[jezic]

the interesting thing is that bad popes tend to be very occupied with other things and leave changing doctrine to their "successors"

[Ziggamafu]

if it happened, it would mean that not was the infallability of the pope a farce, but that the infallability of a council was a farce as well. it would not, however, shake my faith in the catholic church. my faith does not depend upon the wonderful grace of infallability. my faith depends on Christ. reason and sensability would drive me to remain Catholic anyway. the Catholic Church is oldest and has produced more stand-out saints, miracles, and good works than any other denomination. true, the Church has also produced great evils...but i look at the good, not the bad, and find it overwhelming. infallability is nice to hope for, but it is not the only reason to be Catholic.

[thessalonian]

It has not happened in 2000 years. I'm not sweating it. I think that along with the verse "the gates of hell shall not prevail" is your answer. If it happened I would be an aethist. But have no fear of becoming one.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='LSW' post='975628' date='May 8 2006, 05:14 PM']
Ok. Lets say that one day we elect a pope that will clearly teach a heresy. Maybe something like there is no Trinity or that Jesus wasn't divine, ect. Is there a "system" in place to declare tha pope a heretic and remove him? How would this be accomplished? Or is there no such thing because this could never happened because of infalibility?

I would like to hear some thoughts.
[/quote]

St. Robert Bellarmine thought about this very question. His comments might be worth reading.(I will play along with the whole "hypothetical" situation so don't worry).

""Therefore, the true opinion is the fifth, according to which the Pope who is manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be Pope and head, in the same way as he ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the opinion of all the ancient Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction, and outstandingly that of St. Cyprian (lib. 4, epist. 2) who speaks as follows of Novatian, who was Pope [i.e. antipope] in the schism which occurred during the pontificate of St. Cornelius: 'He would not be able to retain the episcopate [i.e. of Rome], and, if he was made bishop before, he separated himself from the body of those who were, like him, bishops, and from the unity of the Church.' "

Pope Innocent III said some interesting things too, though not sure if they apply to your question...

"“To this end faith is so necessary for me that, though I have for other sins God alone as my judge, it is alone for a sin committed against faith that I may be judged by the Church. [propter solum peccatum quod in fide commititur possem ab Ecclesia judicari.] For ‘he who does not believe is already judged’.”(Sermo 2: In Consecratione, PL 218:656)

“You are the salt of the earth… Still less can the Roman Pontiff boast, for he can be judged by men — or rather he can be shown to be judged, if he manifestly ‘loses his savor’ in heresy. [quia potest ab hominibus judicari, vel potius judicatus ostendi, si videlicet evanescit in haeresim.] For he who does not believe is already judged.” (Sermo 4: In Consecratione, PL 218:670)"

I haven't really collected much more on this yet(though there is a lot of interesting stuff). But these two, at least, are in agreement that if a Pope loses his faith, ie ceases to be Catholic which happens when someone knowingly teaches heresy, then he automatically loses his office because he as he ceases to be Catholic he can no longer be the head of something he is not a part of.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='976004' date='May 9 2006, 07:55 AM']
If it happened I would be an aethist. But have no fear of becoming one.
[/quote]

It won't happen, but i doubt becoming atheist would be my first choice.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='MC IMaGiNaZUN' post='976113' date='May 9 2006, 10:28 AM']
It won't happen, but i doubt becoming atheist would be my first choice.
[/quote]


My post was not intended to say it is anywhere near a choice for me. If the scriptures are proven false however, then there is no God.