For those opposed to LifeTeen

[Domine ut Videam]

[quote name='dUSt' post='974767' date='May 7 2006, 07:41 PM']
Geesh.

The opposite of that statement would be, "I'd send my kids to Lifeteen, but don't for fear that they will feel they are too "Catholic".

Not good. haha

What Akalyte meant was that the church, in it's universal form, is what the teens should be attracted to, and not just the Lifeteen presentation of it.

Again, I don't want to bash Lifeteen because it has a lot of positive things going for it. Like anything (phatmass for example), there is good and bad. If I can be biased for a moment, I think it's a mistake to not expose teens to phatmass though. Any teen here who consistently posts will tell you that overall, it has helped them.
[/quote]


That is what I meant : (And by the way i am a teen, i don't have kids) I meant the people i know on LT.com.

That was what i wanted the original post to be about, i asked a question on the LT forum about the LT mass, and about whether or not they would go to a normal mass when a LT one was being offered, and what they would do after college. And the majority of the responses that i got was stating that they went to mass first and foremost to receive Jesus Christ; Eucharist, communion, to partake in fellowship.

That is what i meant....And i am ALL FOR phatmass! I love it here. And i would recommend my friends to come here....i am just hesitant because of what i said. I am worried that they will be accused of not being Catholic or something like that. When i first came i was a bit freaked out....i don't know...but i didn't meant say that people shouldn't come here! I love it here. I actually first came ehre for the vocation station.

-Yours in Christ
Lauren

[MilesChristi]

I've never really seen the need for a LifeTeen Mass to exist, but I don't think any less of the people who attend them. Some of my friends are involved with the organization, and I'll be the first to admit that they're better Christians than I am.

[jasJis]

Yeah. LifeTeen isn't 'Catholic' enough. A little bit different music and homilies that try to show that teens can relate to Catholicism is WRONG. I mean, they come to Masss, recieve the Eucharist, learn it's the Real Presence, but it's all ruined with GUITARS! Either like Catholicism for what is is, gregorian chant and recieving on the tongue or don't be Catholic. Salvation just might pass you by.

Besides, Father J didn't care for phatmass years ago.

[foundsheep]

The mass isnt about self -entertainment, its about god.

[jiyoung]

I think Lifeteen is okay. It's definitely been a great evangelization tool, bringing kids back into the Church. I just think that it's teaching a very shallow and emotional faith. I realize that this isn't the aim of the program, but with the way it's set up, there's no way to monitor how the program is used in each parish. I've found that it concentrates too much on what will entice teens.

I was involved in Lifeteen for a while and "spiritual highs and lows" were really common for me--I felt like I was spiritually bipolar or something. When I went to "Lifeteen Mass" and had the praise music and stuff, I felt great. But during the week, that tended to disappear. What grounded me in my faith was learning about the Truth, and developing [i]steady habits[/i] like daily mass, etc. Even though I felt like I had to force myself to do these things sometimes, I experienced far fewer "spiritual lows" this way. I think it was because I had developed a very firm foundation in the truth and so regardless of how I was feeling, I knew I would never stray from the faith again. Lifeteen seems to be more about "Lifeteen Mass" and "Lifenites" and whatnot--special events that aren't a part of daily life. Our faith needs to be part of our daily life. I don't think Lifeteen promotes that enough--again, not that it doesn't have that as part of its aim, but it's very vaguely focused.

For example: I am involved at a Korean church in my area. I went to a Steubenville conference with them, and there were girls tearfully talking about how they had felt they had lost their faith and God didn't love them because they didn't receive any "gifts of the Holy Spirit." This absolutely dumbfounded me until I realized that they had been basing their faith on these experiences. The charismatics were what their Catholicism was all about--isn't that sad? They didn't receive tongues or something and so their faith is gone. This is why I believe the charismatic movement (while admittedly valid) is flawed; it focuses too much on emotional aspects, which wax and wane with our feelings. (Incidentally, I came to this conclusion through PM's influence--Phatmass has done wonders for me.) Lifeteen, or at least all of the LT parishes I know of/have friends at, are heavily involved in charismatics. Again, this appeals to our emotions, and teenagers run HIGH on emotions, with girls declaring their love for their boyfriends after two weeks and threatening suicide if they break up after three, among other examples. This same church is also having a lot of problems with their youth group because people show up to these events but not necessarily to Mass, and become discouraged and end up leaving the Church.

My old church also modeled their youth group after LT. I ended up quitting the music ministry (a P&W affair, with drums and all) because the people in charge focused too much on using music as a tool to bring people to the Mass--therefore diverting attention from the Eucharist to the band. The music Lifeteen uses is very entertaining, but entertainment has no place in the Mass. Do you see jugglers in the Mass? (...this is a bad question, because I've heard of it being done, but still.) The music should help us focus on the Eucharist, not distract attention from it. The youth group at my old church is also suffering quite a bit. There are nasty cliques and the group does mostly "fellowship-based" (aka social) activities now.

I really think that Lifeteen, while it's a fairly effective tool, brings kids in in droves and then fails to do anything else with them. It might be a good starter (it was for me) but it really lacks substance.

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='dUSt' post='974722' date='May 7 2006, 05:03 PM']
You'll find that many phatmassers, including myself, have no problem with Lifeteen except for a few liturgical aspects of it.

I don't want to overlook the positive aspects of Lifeteen though, which are many. I just think a different approach to engaging teens into the liturgy would be more productive, because what happens to the teens who fall in love with the "Lifeteen way", leave home, and then have to "settle" on the common liturgy celebrated in every Catholic church?

[/quote]

Si senor.

[dUSt]

[quote name='jasJis' post='974788' date='May 7 2006, 07:08 PM']
Besides, Father J didn't care for phatmass years ago.
[/quote]
Why not?

[Luthien]

[quote name='jiyoung' post='974908' date='May 8 2006, 12:22 AM']
I think Lifeteen is okay. It's definitely been a great evangelization tool, bringing kids back into the Church. I just think that it's teaching a very shallow and emotional faith. I realize that this isn't the aim of the program, but with the way it's set up, there's no way to monitor how the program is used in each parish. I've found that it concentrates too much on what will entice teens.

I was involved in Lifeteen for a while and "spiritual highs and lows" were really common for me--I felt like I was spiritually bipolar or something. When I went to "Lifeteen Mass" and had the praise music and stuff, I felt great. But during the week, that tended to disappear. What grounded me in my faith was learning about the Truth, and developing [i]steady habits[/i] like daily mass, etc. Even though I felt like I had to force myself to do these things sometimes, I experienced far fewer "spiritual lows" this way. I think it was because I had developed a very firm foundation in the truth and so regardless of how I was feeling, I knew I would never stray from the faith again. Lifeteen seems to be more about "Lifeteen Mass" and "Lifenites" and whatnot--special events that aren't a part of daily life. Our faith needs to be part of our daily life. I don't think Lifeteen promotes that enough--again, not that it doesn't have that as part of its aim, but it's very vaguely focused.

For example: I am involved at a Korean church in my area. I went to a Steubenville conference with them, and there were girls tearfully talking about how they had felt they had lost their faith and God didn't love them because they didn't receive any "gifts of the Holy Spirit." This absolutely dumbfounded me until I realized that they had been basing their faith on these experiences. The charismatics were what their Catholicism was all about--isn't that sad? They didn't receive tongues or something and so their faith is gone. This is why I believe the charismatic movement (while admittedly valid) is flawed; it focuses too much on emotional aspects, which wax and wane with our feelings. (Incidentally, I came to this conclusion through PM's influence--Phatmass has done wonders for me.) Lifeteen, or at least all of the LT parishes I know of/have friends at, are heavily involved in charismatics. Again, this appeals to our emotions, and teenagers run HIGH on emotions, with girls declaring their love for their boyfriends after two weeks and threatening suicide if they break up after three, among other examples. This same church is also having a lot of problems with their youth group because people show up to these events but not necessarily to Mass, and become discouraged and end up leaving the Church.

My old church also modeled their youth group after LT. I ended up quitting the music ministry (a P&W affair, with drums and all) because the people in charge focused too much on using music as a tool to bring people to the Mass--therefore diverting attention from the Eucharist to the band. The music Lifeteen uses is very entertaining, but entertainment has no place in the Mass. Do you see jugglers in the Mass? (...this is a bad question, because I've heard of it being done, but still.) The music should help us focus on the Eucharist, not distract attention from it. The youth group at my old church is also suffering quite a bit. There are nasty cliques and the group does mostly "fellowship-based" (aka social) activities now.

I really think that Lifeteen, while it's a fairly effective tool, brings kids in in droves and then fails to do anything else with them. It might be a good starter (it was for me) but it really lacks substance.
[/quote]


Aaaaamen sister! Absolutely awesome post. That pretty much encompasses what I went through during my teen years, minus the LifeTeen. I never had LifeTeen, I had Steubie East and Youth 2000. Those are wonderful retreats, but I could not stay at that level my whole life. Its was only when I started learning about Catholicism by reading about Saints and being consistant in receiving the sarcaments, that I found this new faith that never wavered.

The Mass has had the same Eucharist for thousands of years, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Sarah_JC]

[quote name='dUSt' post='974722' date='May 7 2006, 06:03 PM']
I don't want to overlook the positive aspects of Lifeteen though, which are many. I just think a different approach to engaging teens into the liturgy would be more productive, because what happens to the teens who fall in love with the "Lifeteen way", leave home, and then have to "settle" on the common liturgy celebrated in every Catholic church?
[/quote]

But that is why we help them draw deeper, and share with them the joys of confession and adoration... mwa ha ha... then they're hooked!

I've read every complaint against Lifeteen but every program is different... our program has the added cross and blessing of having Confirmation students (which means this is their Confirmation class).
I've never seen a class as preapred as this one. I've never seen a class so excited about being confirmed (many of them spent HOURS and HOURS picking a Saint name... on their own time) However, it doesn't change the fact that 33 young men and women are about to recieve the sacrament (next Sunday), many of them having no support at home. So, please pray for them.

[the flutehonker]

hmmm...Lifeteen. Oh boy. It was the reaction to my comments on Lifeteen that made me afraid to post here for months.

For me, it's not the Lifeteen mass that drew me in. I'm perfectly ok with any of the masses my church offers, and find that I can draw substance from all of them, I just love homilies.

For me, it's the [i]program[/i] in general that really attracted me. I'm sure it's different everywhere, but my youth leader is so passionate about what he does, and anytime we can get 5 interested people together he'll do anything we ask for, for real stuff, not just social events. Our Lifeteen program isn't only about a different mass, we have a lifenight which basically is a fun hangout thing where we discuss a different topic every week, and this is mostly to draw new people in, especially because it's right after mass. We also have teen bible studies, and our "Monday Night Motivation" as well, which is where we really learn about our faith. Our Monday nights seem to be delving deeper and deeper, and I really enjoy everything that I am learning and how to be the best Christian I can possibly be. We do random stuff on Saturdays too when we think of something we want to particularly discuss if we feel we didn't go far enough on Monday or something. I'm in the process of calling some of my friends so we can organize a Theology of the Body.

We got together and celebrated Lord's Day two days ago, that was really fun and spiritually enhancing.

I have come to understand why so many people are against Lifeteen, and I can see your points. Apparently it's working better in some places than in others too. For me, however, the good Lifeteen has brought far outweighs the bad.

[inDEED]

Domine ut Videam, your intentions are good in posting this link and attempting to defend Lifeteen here on PM - but, trust me - opening up that can of worms is near pointless on PM...

While I completely support LT and will continue to do so, there are many on PM, many of whom I do respect, that refuse to give any credibility to the largest, most effective, Catholic youth ministry program in the world.

I'm glad you're involved in a dynamic LT program. Keep it up and remember to invite those teens in your high school that may not know Christ!

[Domine ut Videam]

[quote name='the flutehonker' post='975353' date='May 8 2006, 12:15 PM']
hmmm...Lifeteen. Oh boy. It was the reaction to my comments on Lifeteen that made me afraid to post here for months.

For me, it's not the Lifeteen mass that drew me in. I'm perfectly ok with any of the masses my church offers, and find that I can draw substance from all of them, I just love homilies.

For me, it's the [i]program[/i] in general that really attracted me. I'm sure it's different everywhere, but my youth leader is so passionate about what he does.
[/quote]
See this is what i mean... this is what i was trying to get across....

[Church Punk]

I used to be involved with LT. I have done some soul searching and have decided not to play music during mass anymore for several reasons.

-Most of the music they were playing is protestant music. Not to say that it was not good and uplifting, but it was rare that they would play anything that would metion Mary or anything else Catholic besided what the Protestants believe.

-I have descovered that the electric guitar even when used in appropreate and reverant way, still does not compare to the Gregorian Chant or pipe organ with a traditional choir. These standards the Church urges as use is because it is more holy during mass.

-The parish where I was playing at does not maintain the "new" LT liturgy, where as they still say their own closing prayer, The Mass...never ends it must be lived etc etc

As posted previously on here Lifeteen really can reach youth and teens. However there is much responsiblity on the heads of the co-ordinators to ensure proper cathecism is relayed though. I have seen very good fruits come from this program.

However I remember sitting in mass with the youth minister of the parish mentioned above when they began the Kyrie (in greek), he whispered to me what does that mean?

[jasJis]

[quote]Besides, Father J didn't care for phatmass years ago.[/quote]
[quote name='dUSt' post='975167' date='May 8 2006, 07:59 AM']
Why not?[/quote]Because he felt too many posts were written as if they were correct and athorative and issued judgement beyond their qualifications. He felt that people's faith would be abused and demeaned without allowance for where those people may be in their faith development.

How many times have you heard people say they were afraid to post here or ask a question or provide an opinion? How many non-Catholics come here asking questions and challenging Catholicism that don't soon get the 'heretical' and 'EECNS' and 'your religion is full of errors' response? Not many of the non-Cath visitors that visit here are as spiritually mature as BroAdam. Are surprised that Mulls left?

We all can't be marshmallow soft. (I know I can't) But neither can we all be the theological hammer and anvil. I'd sum it up in my own words as 'lack of pastorial tack' if I was being kind. Or maybe just lacking in balance.

[Guest Rick777]

Lifeteen.....somehow they have got it in thier minds that all kids want to do these days is "celebrate." "Lets celebrate this, lets celebrate that, we are celebrating on the Lord's day, we are celebrating the Eucharist was a favorite of a Lifeteen program at a parish near my house. It all seems so watered down to me. I'm trying hard to remember if I've ever heard a homily at a Lifeteen Mass that discussed anything other than celebrating something or other. Or a homliy when the priest didnt walk up and down the aisles.Don't get me wrong I love celebrating(lol) but what about the Sacrifice of the Mass? What about denying yourself and taking up your cross for Jesus? What about Mary, the Rosary, the Sacraments. I don't know about anyone else's Lifeteen experience but I think it was really just watered down Catholicism.