Is ALL sin equal in God's sight?

[phatcatholic]

in the Apologetics board, CrossEyed1985 wrote:[list]In God's sight ALL SIN IS EQUAL. According to the bible, we (if we are honest with ourselves and before a God that knows our EVERY thought) are ALL guilty of MURDER AND ADULTERY among other sins!!! (see 1 John 3:15 and Matthew 5:21-22,28). The bible also informs us that God sees ALL SIN as equally evil, this is evident from James 2:10 and other verses that speak of transgressing God's Law and "... and yet offend in ONE point, he is guilty of ALL." (emphasis added).

Crime (sin) is directly proportionate to punishment. Let me try to explain it this way... if you heard of a man that was sentenced to 2 hours of community service, you may reasonably think that his crime was NOT very great... on the other hand if he was sentenced to 20 life sentences you may think "WOW" that guy did something REALLY aweful. God's view of all sin is evident in the fact that ALL SIN recieves THE SAME SENTENCE an eternity in the lake of fire; Hell. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). That means to a bible believing person (a Christian), that they go to Hell for all of eternity. So, whether you are "just" a liar or you are a murderer, in the courtroom on Judgement Day you will be found just as guilty before a HOLY GOD, ALL SIN IS INFINITELY EVIL, as Paul put it, while speaking on God's HOLY LAW in Romans 7:13 "that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (NIV). Consider these words, he was a STUDENT of the Law, he said that in light of God's HOLY STANDARD (the Ten Commandments) SIN BECAME EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL, and he is referring to ALL SIN being exceedingly sinful.

In conclusion, WE ARE ALL GUILTY AND DESERVING OF HELL. So let us be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL TO OUR CREATOR, SUSTAINER, AND SAVIOR for providing a way of escape even before the foundations of the earth.

PS-If you do not believe in Hell, or believe in places other than the only two afterlife destinations that the bible speaks of (Heaven and Hell), think about this: Not knowing about or not believing in gravity is not going to save me if I leap from the top of a skyscraper!!! Neither will unbelief in Hell save someone from it.
[/list]i am posting it here so that this topic can be properly engaged.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Franimus]

I think it is not all equal in God's eyes. God is omniscient, so he can see all the aspects of a particular sin. Since we have agreed that there is a difference in culpability for sins depending on circumstances, would not the omniscient Almighty Judge be able to see and understand that too?

[Lil Red]

if all sin is equal, then why in 1 John 5:16-17 does it distinguish from deadly sin and sin that is not deadly?

and also in James 1:14-15:
[i]each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then [b]desire conceives and brings forth sin, and when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death.[/b][/i]

St. James is distinguishing between beginning sin from mature sin which brings death.

[Fidei Defensor]

All sin is equal in that every sin offends God, and is turning away from Him. However, not every sin has the same punishment.

[jswranch]

Ohh ohh me me! I will try this one, though give me a little bit of time!

[jswranch]

Dear CrossEyed1985,

Thank you for your comments. The issue of sin classification (sin vs. mortal and venial sin) is sadly an issue Catholics and some Protestants disagree. To begin a discussion as brothers, let us begin where we agree. I will use your posting to start.

[quote]...WE ARE ALL GUILTY AND DESERVING OF HELL. So let us be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL TO OUR CREATOR, SUSTAINER, AND SAVIOR for providing a way of escape even before the foundations of the earth. [/quote] Amen here. Whether we stub our toe and yell an inappropriate explitive or murder lots of people, we deserve hell and can only have hope in our relationship with Christ to save us. We are to be eternally greatfull for Jesus' gift to us. We agree that the smallest sin separates us enough from God to deserve hell equally.

[quote]PS-If you do not believe in Hell, or believe in places other than the only two afterlife destinations that the bible speaks of (Heaven and Hell), think about this: Not knowing about or not believing in gravity is not going to save me if I leap from the top of a skyscraper!!! Neither will unbelief in Hell save someone from it.[/quote] We share the same belief that Hell exists and people go there. The Catholic Church (Roman Catholic Church) holds four final things to be sure: death, judgement, heaven, hell. Every person living will face heaven or hell, believe it or not.

[quote]a God that knows our EVERY thought[/quote]
agree.

But it is here where our beliefs begin to part. Let us turn to the scripture you listed and the explanation you gave.
[quote]...if you heard of a man that was sentenced to 2 hours of community service, you may reasonably think that his crime was NOT very great... on the other hand if he was sentenced to 20 life sentences you may think "WOW" that guy did something REALLY aweful. God's view of all sin is evident in the fact that ALL SIN recieves THE SAME SENTENCE an eternity in the lake of fire; Hell. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV). [/quote] What kind of crime could one commit and receive 2 hours of community service? How about driving 1 mph over the speed limit? The speed limit is 30mph, you go 31mph, endangering neighbors according to the law. Sin has occurred. Exceeding the speed limit intentionally, without excuse, is a sin as per (1 Peter 2:13-17). So, by the logic you have above, the speeder is spiritually in the same trouble (Hell) as the sexually immoral, idolaters, prostitutes, thieves, greedy, drunkards...etc . However, the Catholic Church disagrees with your interpretation that 1 Cor 6:9-10 applies to those who drive 31mph in a 30mph zone. According to the Catholic Church, someone who knowingly and with control breaks in and robs his neighbor (a sin listed in 1Cor 6:9-10), will be in danger of hell.


[quote]...we are ALL guilty of MURDER... (1 Jn 3:15)[/quote] I disagree. The verse does not indicate we are [u]all[/u] guilty of murder. It indicates we are guilty of murder if we commit it in our minds.

[quote]we are ALL guilty of ... ADULTERY (MT 5:21-22,28)[/quote] I disagree again. The verse does not indicate we are [u]all[/u] guilty of adultery. It indicates those of us who commit adultery in our minds are guilty.


[quote]So, whether you are "just" a liar or you are a murderer, in the courtroom on Judgement Day you will be found just as guilty before a HOLY GOD, ALL SIN IS INFINITELY EVIL, as Paul put it, while speaking on God's HOLY LAW in Romans 7:13 "that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (NIV).[/quote]
I am not sure what conclusion you are attempting to prove here, but the NIV quote I found which is a bit different. This verse does not show "all sin is infinately evil." However, we agree we need Christ if we commit one single sin.
[quote]RM:5:17 (NIV) Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.[/quote] I also disagree with your conclusion that all will be found just as guilty and infinitely evil. The bible shows the contrary. Let us take two examples: Judas Iscariot and John the Baptist.

[u]John the Baptist[/u]: Because of who is was and what he did, Jesus declared him: "Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist (MT11:11)"

[u]Judas Iscariot[/u]: His sin was so great: "It would be better for that man if he had never been born." (MT26:24)

From these verses, I cannot agree with your conclusions that John and Judas Iscariot
"will be found just as guilty before a HOLY GOD."



To support the position that there exists more than one type of sin, let us look at 1 John 5: 16-17. Here we can see the Apostle John writes of two types of sin, not one. He speaks of one type of sin that leads to death and one that does not.
[quote]If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.[/quote]
John was backed up in theology on the duality of sin by James (James 1:13-15 NIV) [quote]Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.[/quote]

From these verses and the evidence from above, we can conclude the following statement is incorrect: "ALL SIN being exceedingly sinful....God's view of all sin is evident in the fact that ALL SIN recieves THE SAME SENTENCE an eternity in the lake of fire; Hell."

Finally brother, let us agree, those who embrace the sin that "does not lead to death," must question whether they really do accept the gift of Jesus' salvation.

Edited May 5, 2006 by jswranch

[littlebits]

I suggest that when the Apostle Paul wrote..let none of you suffer as a murderer.the concept of sin as more or less..is that in taking life or destroying the creations of other gods..inasmuch as the Lord spoke..have I not said ye are all gods? is more serious..
if original sin is rooted in covetry.."the wanting of things or belongings that are not rightfully mine or yours or ours"..then forgiveness also involves repentance, restititution and the resolve not to repeat such mistakes..so when murder occurrs or destruction as in war..there is no recognition of wrongdoing other than to the nuclear family..for the victims of her thefts her murders and her adulteries are disposable and obviously however temporarily are disposed of.
As original sin in doctrine it is no different than a disobedient child entering another room in the house ( ex. the garden of Eden)..and destroying that room in disobedience or taking over that room..(her murders, her thefts her adulteries) as in Cain slew Abel.
the murders, thefts and adulteries, as spoken of in scripture are all her works..all from disobedience.
Each of our disobediences is reflected in neighbourhood and community events..and in my family there is the not dissimilar experience of the terrible twos..those temper tantrums or outrageous violent acts whenever my youngest is told No or my older sister is told..I quote my now dead mother..having children is a job..they are your children it's your job ..Do It..etc. until it finally resolved within my mind..that the worst sins are those three murders, thefts and adulteries..but quite possibly COVETRY ( but the lack of any remorse and the endless repetition takes its toll)
begins as a source of all sins..mine as well..sorry I should have locked the gate. Sorry there are other creatures other creations other creators ..we shouldn't be allowed.. excuse me for being born.. and I quote scripture.. and money is the answer to everything.
My thoughts may not be absolute, however it apears that NO and WORK and NEIGHBOURS are still soap in the mouth bad words. but No is a complete sentence. And washing away the evidence doesn't prevent sin. We have all sinned.

[thessalonian]

I think we should consider the results in the equation. Tell me it is the same if a madman drops a nuclear bomb, killing 10 million people and leaveing another 50 million with various forms of injuries and handicapes and illness, destroying buildings, livelihoods, and families, as one person being angry with another? Tell me how repentence is equal in the two cases as well. It is far more difficult to repent from the atrocity than the arguement. Considering these two points I find it very difficult to believe that the two are equal in God's eyes. He after all motivates repentence by his grace. It takes far more grace to repent from the atrocity, therefore it is not equal. END OF STORY!