Circle_Master Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 alright, let me try this illustration first. finding these quotes might be a pain many people say that love is completely a choice. however in Scripture we are told to love kindness. If it is just a choice, you should 'be' kind, and not have to have love beyond that. What Galatians says about love are all emotions as well. So basically, in this instance, when you love someone, and go to do something for them, you find joy yourself, in helping them. So you still do it for your own desire, but yet it is out of love for them. As humans, we only do what we truly believe in our heart to bring the most satisfaction. When we sin, that is because it will bring the most satisfaction to us at that moment. Yet often we feel guilty afterwards, and sometimes that seeps in and we realize the most satisfaction will not be sinning, so we do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 "we only do what we truly believe in our heart to bring the most satisfaction" Sometimes we do things because they are the right thing to do, and they don't bring us satisfaction. THe scripture has more than one description of love: Put me as a seal upon thy heart, as a seal upon thy arm, for love is strong as death. Love is patient and kind but also a hard choice and an iron will. Think of Abram marching upon that hill with a knife to kill his own son. He loved his Son but he loved his God more. Think of the mother in Machabees watching her sons die before her, or matryrs who walked into flames because they loved God more than themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 "we only do what we truly believe in our heart to bring the most satisfaction" Sometimes we do things because they are the right thing to do, and they don't bring us satisfaction. THe scripture has more than one description of love: Put me as a seal upon thy heart, as a seal upon thy arm, for love is strong as death. Love is patient and kind but also a hard choice and an iron will. Think of Abram marching upon that hill with a knife to kill his own son. He loved his Son but he loved his God more. Think of the mother in Machabees watching her sons die before her, or matryrs who walked into flames because they loved God more than themselves. exactly! now you are starting to get it (even if you don't realize it) "sometimes we do things because they are the right thing to do" YES, because that will bring you the greatest satisfaction. In doing the right thing. They may not bring pleasure, and joy, and happiness, but they are the greatest desire in your heart. YES or the abraham thing too. His greatest desire was to obey God, and that is what he obeyed. When we sin it is because that is the greatest desire in our heart at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Nope. Sometimes doing the right thing is the least desire of my heart. Thats when the will takes over and you just do it anyway, because its the right thing to do, the proper thing to do, the thing God wants you to do. So you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 Give me an example, and I will show you how you found your satisfaction in that. I never have done anything I did not want to do. I may have wished I could do something else, but every action I have ever taken has been because that is what I wished at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 You don't have teenagers do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 We always do what we want to do most. I must be TOTALLY missing your point. For example, right now, I want to smoke a cigarette. But I don't, because I quit a year ago. I don't WANT to go without a cigarette, but I do because I know it's bad for me. I could come up a million things I WANT to do, but don't. I have at times wanted to lie because it would be the easiest way out of a situation, but I don't. Please explain better. I don't need quotes or anything, just a better, clearer example of what you're trying to say. Thanks, and God bless. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 (edited) When we sin it is because that is the greatest desire in our heart at that moment. Initally, I said I agree with you, but now that I give it more careful consideration, I don't know if I can say that. I have to think about this further. God bless. :) Edited December 28, 2003 by MrsFrozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 God will not punish ignorance with Hellfire. We can only be held accountable for what we know of Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 28, 2003 Author Share Posted December 28, 2003 I must be TOTALLY missing your point. For example, right now, I want to smoke a cigarette. But I don't, because I quit a year ago. I don't WANT to go without a cigarette, but I do because I know it's bad for me. I could come up a million things I WANT to do, but don't. I have at times wanted to lie because it would be the easiest way out of a situation, but I don't. MrsFrozen, it is hard to say this because there are no clear words for it. Yes, you feel a desire for a cigarette, but it cannot be what you love the most, if it was, then you would do it. However, you have balanced what you know of health problems with smokers, and your physical desire, and you concluded that it is not what you want to do. That decision was what you were most satisfied with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 alright, let me try this illustration first. finding these quotes might be a pain many people say that love is completely a choice. however in Scripture we are told to love kindness. If it is just a choice, you should 'be' kind, and not have to have love beyond that. What Galatians says about love are all emotions as well. So basically, in this instance, when you love someone, and go to do something for them, you find joy yourself, in helping them. So you still do it for your own desire, but yet it is out of love for them. As humans, we only do what we truly believe in our heart to bring the most satisfaction. When we sin, that is because it will bring the most satisfaction to us at that moment. Yet often we feel guilty afterwards, and sometimes that seeps in and we realize the most satisfaction will not be sinning, so we do not. When you say desire you are only stating half of the process. To desire is one thing, to act to an end is another. It sounds like you are saying there is no alturistic act. You are saying that we do good because it brings us greater pleasure than doing evil. In reality the pleasure we feel when doing good is a side effect not the end result. To complete a good act is our motivation not the pleasure derived from it. (Philosophy 1, El Camino College 1990. I received an A) "Take care of one another that is what God asks of us". J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I just kind of jumped in on this conversation, but let me throw my two cents in there anyway. I am a virgin in every sense of the word, however, I have certainly been tempted against chastity before. It seems like almost everyday Satin tries to get me to sin sexually. Many times, I will meet a young woman who, if there were no such thing as objective moral truth (i.e. no God), I would love nothing more than to to have sex with. To use Circle's words, I "love" sex. Yes, I really do. Just because I haven't had it before, doesn't mean I can't love it. Just because the Pittsburgh Pirates haven't won the World Series in my lifetime, doesn't mean I wouldn't love it if they did, but that's another topic. Anyway, sex is a wonderful gift from God which I love. Often times, I find myself in a situation where it seems as it is the only thing I desire, however, I know that that goes against the will of God and I don't do it. Ideally, that would be because I love God supremely and his law supremely. In practice though, that probably isn't the case if I'm honest with myself. Why then, do I now give in to that sin, or any sin for that matter? The answer is the fear of God's wrath and being eternally damned. Because I am a human and am sinful and weak, at a given moment in time, I may love a sinful act (i.e. sex outside of marriage) more than I love God, but I choose not to engage in that sinful act because of my love of myself and my desire to avoide hell at all costs, even giving up things I like or think I might like. This is probably making very little sense, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't always do what do think we like the best for various reasons. Please don't misunderstand, God is the center of my life and the love of my life. If he so wills, one day I will offer my life to him as a priest, however, because I am human which means I am sinful and weak, I do not have perfect love for God, or anyone for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 (edited) God will not punish ignorance with Hellfire. We can only be held accountable for what we know of Him. Than is it better to not evangelize and spread the Gospel, for fear that someone who was totally ignorant to it and wouldn't otherwise be held accountable for it will now hear it, and possibly reject it and go to hell? Edited December 29, 2003 by mulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 heh mulls, I've never understood that about Catholics as well, but they always support it by words and practice. I'll just drop the discussion on why we do what we do for now, you guys are extremely picky over EVERYTHING someone says if they have non-catholic in their title, and this is a tricky discussion to begin with. If you wish to resume I will see if I can keep going, but some verses that apply are only on the edge of my mind and I can't seem to recall where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 i would say if there was only one thing to discuss on the board, and in life in general, it should be salvation. keep ya head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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