Physical Needs in Religious Life

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='PCPA2Be's Mom' post='963814' date='Apr 28 2006, 01:21 AM']
First Denise was required to have health insurance for 1 year to cover any medical issue that might occur during that first year. After that, the community would cover anything that came up.

Denise was required to have a complete physical and a long questionaire was to be completed by her physician including psych. evaluation.
[/quote]

Just a side note here, which may have already been addressed. These regulations are applied by the PCPA community in Portsmouth, according to Mrs. Deb (HisChild's mom). However, these are not the regulations in all PCPA communities.

[quote name='OLAM Dad' post='964355' date='Apr 28 2006, 03:26 PM']
This is an interesting hypothesis. If what you say is true (and I'm not saying it isn't) why wouldn't orders just say that they only permit virgins rather than not admitting annulees? Afterall, it's not just those who have been married who are not virgins.
[/quote]

Answering my dad's question to some extent....

Some communities have the "privilege" of having a community which not only takes the vows, but also consecrates their virginity, and therefore cannot allow widows or women with annulled marriages. Other communities would only reject a non-virgin if she had been affected from her relationships in a way that would cause her to be unsuitable (or un[i]able[/i]) to live the vow of chastity, at least not yet. Some communities, however, do not even address this issue before accepting a candidate. So, as others have said, it [b]definitely[/b] depends on the community.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[VeniteAdoremus]

What I'm interested in is whether a community would allow me a longer-than-standard bed and things like that, because if I had to sleep in a "normal" bed I WILL be truly disabled within two years. People tend to think a longer bed is a luxury, because to them it is. To me, it's sheer necessity.

I guess I'll have to take this up with the vd of the communities I'm looking at (I already know the Carmelites DCJ don't make a problem of it... if only I were a Carmelite!)

Edited January 24, 2007 by VeniteAdoremus

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Gemma' post='964181' date='Apr 28 2006, 01:57 PM']
That can be summed up in one word: virginity.

Those who have not been "touched" do not "crave" the physical, and therefore are less tempted to sins of the flesh.

Ironic. Most of those who take this attitude follow the Rule of St. Augustine. He's one of the greatest penitents of all time.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]


Gemma, I'm sorry but I don't know where you got this explanation for those communities who don't except women with annulments. I've never heard of this! In reality it is more often the case that a woman who applies is not a virgin, not because of a marriage (or attempted marriage) but because of the way she lived before she "converted".

I don't know of any Dominican Monastery (which follow the rule of St. Augustine) that doesn't consider women with annulments. In fact, I believe most monastic/contemplative orders do.

HOWEVER, if a community is more cautious it is because there WAS an attempted marriage and there are deep wounds from this experience. This experience will "color" her discernment and her life with the community, which let me tell you, can sometimes feel like marrying 17 other people!

Dominicans have never made the consecration of virgins and have never put that much emphasis on this. The emphasis is on spiritual virginity.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Lil Red

[sanctafamilia]

Just to let you all know, I just spoke with a consecrated virgin and she said that a disability is never an impediment to that way of life. You do need to support yourself through Disability or some other means, but at least there is some hope out there for us if we discern that religious life isn't going to work for us.

[shortnun]

[quote][b]From Sr. Mary Catharine[/b]
Gemma, I'm sorry but I don't know where you got this explanation for those communities who don't except women with annulments. I've never heard of this! In reality it is more often the case that a woman who applies is not a virgin, not because of a marriage (or attempted marriage) but because of the way she lived before she "converted".

I don't know of any Dominican Monastery (which follow the rule of St. Augustine) that doesn't consider women with annulments. In fact, I believe most monastic/contemplative orders do.

HOWEVER, if a community is more cautious it is because there WAS an attempted marriage and there are deep wounds from this experience. This experience will "color" her discernment and her life with the community, which let me tell you, can sometimes feel like marrying 17 other people!

Dominicans have never made the consecration of virgins and have never put that much emphasis on this. The emphasis is on spiritual virginity.[/quote]
I have a friend who was discerning cloistered life. She was married and has a child. She has had an annullment for the past two years. One community seemed to imply (I don't have a direct quote from her or the larger context in which the conversation took place), that even though her child was no longer a legal dependant, and her marriage was annulled, she would still not be accepted on the grounds that she was not a physical (genital) virgin. I do not want to judge this community, but I do know that my friend took this news as harsh and painful to absorb.

So, bottom line: There's [u]way[/u] more to this story than I know (and more than what my friend experienced in her conversation with a representative of this community). But it does leave me reflecting about how religious life calls us to live a life of "virginity" that is all-encompassing, and not just about our sexuality availability.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1174769' date='Jan 24 2007, 01:27 PM']
So, bottom line: There's [u]way[/u] more to this story than I know (and more than what my friend experienced in her conversation with a representative of this community). But it does leave me reflecting about how religious life calls us to live a life of "virginity" that is all-encompassing, and not just about our sexuality availability.
[/quote]

I'm sorry your friend has this experience! We don't consider women who have children because we feel that a mother is always a mother and her children should not be deprived of her in their lives. We had experience of having sisters who had been married and had children and the children always found it difficult that mom couldn't be home for weddings, baptisms, baby sitting, etc. This is just our experience. There ARE many holy, happy, moms who are sisters/nuns out there. Again,each community needs to discern for themselves.

We have to be careful not to confuse chastity with virginity nor underestimate the value of virginity as an objectively "higher good". We also have to be careful not to confuse virginity with religious vows. Not easy.

First, all, no matter what their state in life are called to be chaste. Second, physical virginity in and of itself is simply the absence of sexual intercourse. However, virginity for the SAKE OF THE KINGDOM or for God alone is a higher good than marriage because it's end is God alone. Virginity is a sign of life in heaven where there will be no marriage or giving in marriage.

Sins against chastity and virginity are in the order of temperance and so St. Thomas doesn't get too excited about them. Sins against charity and justice are more serious.

One can lose physical virginity but not lose that virginity of the spirit which is more important. Conversely, one can be a physical virgin and give oneself to the things of the world that take us from God.

The loss of physical virginity through sexual intercourse does have an ontological effect on a woman (in her being). She has given herself to someone in a temporary way and we woman are made to give ourselves to another in fidelity. It is often difficult for a woman, even after she has been forgiven by God to not still feel guilty. Some of this guilt can be healthy but the important thing is to move on and see this as a source of experiencing God's merciful love. How can we truly experience God's loving kindness and forgiveness if we have nothing of which to be forgiven? This experience can be an entryway for a woman to more totally give herself to God because she has experienced her weakness and need for Him to do all things for her. So, it can be a source of true joy.

Virginity is an beautiful gift of grace, no doubt about it but it's got to kept in it's proper place. In religious life it is OBEDIENCE that is more important. In living obedience we are configured and conformed to Christ's Redemptive Love. We become one with our Spouse in saving work. We become like Him in the most perfect way possible because he was obedient to the Father. "I come to do your will, O God".

The Vatican II constitution on religious life, unfortunately changed the enumeration of the vows to Chastity, poverty and obedience whereas we Dominicans, along with the ancient orders say Obedience, poverty and chastity. In fact we only profess obedience because it is obedience to a whole way of life according to our constitutions. Included in this is the vows of obedience, poverty and chastity.

I hope this helps. I'm sorry I went on for so long! You can see that my classes are often long winded!

God bless you!