Physical Needs in Religious Life

[franciscanheart]

I've heard before of people being turned away from convents (for entrance) because they have medical conditions which are too great a burden for the order. What kind of conditions would this be? Why would they turn them away? Could they not get insurance provided by their family or something? Is this more complicated than it sounds? What if there is something that is physically wrong with them, which only sometimes impairs normal function, but they've never done anything about it anyway?

I'm full of questions, I know. The more you visit here the more you feel compelled to know! :

[PCPA2Be's Mom]

I am going to answer for Denise and can only speak to her experience.

First Denise was required to have health insurance for 1 year to cover any medical issue that might occur during that first year. After that, the community would cover anything that came up.

Denise was required to have a complete physical and a long questionaire was to be completed by her physician including psych. evaluation.

I do not know what would have happened if she were not found to be in sound health

Deb


I am going to answer for Denise and can only speak to her experience.

First Denise was required to have health insurance for 1 year to cover any medical issue that might occur during that first year. After that, the community would cover anything that came up.

Denise was required to have a complete physical and a long questionaire was to be completed by her physician including psych. evaluation.

I do not know what would have happened if she were not found to be in sound health

Deb

[Gemma]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='963742' date='Apr 28 2006, 12:01 AM']
I've heard before of people being turned away from convents (for entrance) because they have medical conditions which are too great a burden for the order. What kind of conditions would this be? Why would they turn them away? Could they not get insurance provided by their family or something? Is this more complicated than it sounds? What if there is something that is physically wrong with them, which only sometimes impairs normal function, but they've never done anything about it anyway?

I'm full of questions, I know. The more you visit here the more you feel compelled to know! :
[/quote]

This question has come up many times in many places. If I tried to enumerate, I know I'd leave something out.

People are sometimes critical of orders who don't take discerners with handicaps. As one cloistered nun put it, such is not a part of that order's charism. An order which takes someone with handicaps, etc., has to do so as a part of their charism.

I can only speak from experience on this. There are many out there who are handicapped and want to serve, but due to . . .whatever. . .orders won't accept them.

Our Cloisterites are going to, and in fact already have, accepted aspirants who are "less than perfect." Our first committed aspirant is a blind chef and personal trainer. Another is on heart medication for the rest of her life. The Cloisterites will have perpetual adoration eventually--once we get the personnel--and the way we're going to do it is this: the able-bodied sisters/brothers will cover the nocturnal hours; the "sick" sisters/brothers will cover the day-time hours.

We will also be offering the opportunity of [url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/claustraloblates/"]claustral oblates[/url]--those who must remain on disability or those who cannot receive annulments for whatever reason. We already have one aspirant for our claustral oblates. She will be requiring a lot of physical support due to her condition. She joins her suffering to Jesus Crucified, and has a super attitude toward it all.

Our foundations are one of very few who will receive people with annulments. I know some priests and religious will consider a person with an annulment a "married" person, but that's contrary to reality. An annulment states that there wasn't a marriage to begin with, according to our Canon Law. Half of our aspirants have annulments.

The only proposed SOLC Foundation what will not be able to accept the handicapped will be the Religious of St. John Cassian. They will be the most austere of our cloistered orders.

Hope this helps.

Blessings,
Gemma

[cmotherofpirl]

Why would people with annulments would be rejected?

[karin]

Often times good health is a sign of a religious vocation. Also the devil can make people who do not have good health want a vocation even though it is not what they are called to do. It's one of those things when the devil tempts you to do something that is in itself good but it is not the perfect thing for you. like if a man wants to be a priest but he is allergic to wheat usually a seminary wont take him. I am not putting this as a blanket answer for every one who doesnt have perfect health. That is just one thing another thing is that orders usually have a very extensive entrance application that includes checking your health. Sometimes order will take some one without out perfect health if they discern that the person is right for their community. Because the order is itself discerning as much as the person to try and figure out God's will. Also living monastic life is very difficult and if some one has health disorders it might prevent them from getting as much out of the life as they could. So there are alot of things that go into the process. THose are just some things the question made me think of. If some one more knowledgable contradicts me then i will be happy because I dont wont to be speaking untruths. God Bless and Mary Keep
Karin

[magnificat]

About the annulments, I don't know. It may depend on the community.

I second what Karin said about good health as being one sign of a vocation. Again, I think the type of "conditions" that would lead to a community turning one away varies, based very much on the order.

Also, from a practical standpoint, there are some communities that rely entirely on God's Providence to provide for their needs (i.e. their apostolates don't make any money) which means that they would just have a much harder time covering medical expenses.

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='963856' date='Apr 28 2006, 06:46 AM']
Why would people with annulments would be rejected?
[/quote]
I can certainly understand why good health might be required, but I too question why an order would not accept somebody who has had an annulment. I know for a fact, for example, that the PCPAs accept annulees. (is that a word

Karin, I don't think you're making a broad statement regarding good health being a sign of a vocation and ill health being a sign of no vocation but some might assume that from reading your post. One's physical health has no bearing, in and of itself, on whether one is called to the religious life. Mother Angelica, for example, had physical problems from very early in life. In fact, poor health is often a sign of sanctity. Padre Pio and St. Francis both received the stigmata, which impacted their overall physical health in a very negative way.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='963742' date='Apr 28 2006, 12:01 AM']
I've heard before of people being turned away from convents (for entrance) because they have medical conditions which are too great a burden for the order. What kind of conditions would this be? Why would they turn them away? Could they not get insurance provided by their family or something? Is this more complicated than it sounds? What if there is something that is physically wrong with them, which only sometimes impairs normal function, but they've never done anything about it anyway?

I'm full of questions, I know. The more you visit here the more you feel compelled to know! :
[/quote]

I do not know much about the rules and workings of acceptance but here is an Order that takes able-bodied and those who are fragile in health:

[url="http://www.benedictinesjc.org/aboutUs.html"]http://www.benedictinesjc.org/aboutUs.html[/url]

Also, there are the Franciscan Missionaries of Jesus Crucified. They are based in N.Y. and are striving to become a Secular Institute. They are made up of individuals who are handicapped or suffering in some way. I believe their formation is several years long with vows taken at steps along the way. No website site for them though I don't think...only a few mentions of them here and there with a contact. [of course this is all from a mind that meanders and has poor memories]

[Gemma]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='963856' date='Apr 28 2006, 07:46 AM']
Why would people with annulments would be rejected?
[/quote]


That can be summed up in one word: virginity.

Those who have not been "touched" do not "crave" the physical, and therefore are less tempted to sins of the flesh.

Ironic. Most of those who take this attitude follow the Rule of St. Augustine. He's one of the greatest penitents of all time.

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='magnificat' post='963911' date='Apr 28 2006, 08:37 AM']
About the annulments, I don't know. It may depend on the community.

I second what Karin said about good health as being one sign of a vocation. Again, I think the type of "conditions" that would lead to a community turning one away varies, based very much on the order.

Also, from a practical standpoint, there are some communities that rely entirely on God's Providence to provide for their needs (i.e. their apostolates don't make any money) which means that they would just have a much harder time covering medical expenses.
[/quote]

What's so wrong with "consecrated suffering?" As St. Paul says, "I make up in my body what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ." (Not an exact quote, but in the ballpark).

There are others who work for vocations who are going to be sending referrals to us--referrals of those who wish to consecrate their suffering for the salvation of souls.

If good health were the measure, then the Visitation wouldn't exist. St Francis de Sales founded it SPECIFICALLY for those who were considered frail in the world, and couldn't practice the austerities of the established orders.

Like I said, an order which accepts those in "poor" health have to have the CHARISM (gift to the church and the world) to do so.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[magnificat]

[quote name='Gemma' post='964181' date='Apr 28 2006, 11:57 AM']

What's so wrong with "consecrated suffering?" As St. Paul says, "I make up in my body what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ." (Not an exact quote, but in the ballpark).

[/quote]

Nothing is wrong with that. I'm merely speaking from my experience with a few orders. Clearly, each community will operate differently based on their charism.

Peace.

[shortnun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='963856' date='Apr 28 2006, 06:46 AM']
Why would people with annulments would be rejected?
[/quote]


[quote name='magnificat' post='963911' date='Apr 28 2006, 07:37 AM']
About the annulments, I don't know. It may depend on the community.
[/quote]
It very much does depend on the community. A friend of mine has long felt the desire to live a cloistered life. She has an annulment and a child who is over 18 and not dependent, yet many communities (she has told me of at least 3) have turned her away. Please pray that she may have perseverence in her vocation.

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='Gemma' post='964181' date='Apr 28 2006, 11:57 AM']
That can be summed up in one word: virginity.

Those who have not been "touched" do not "crave" the physical, and therefore are less tempted to sins of the flesh.

Ironic. Most of those who take this attitude follow the Rule of St. Augustine. He's one of the greatest penitents of all time.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]
This is an interesting hypothesis. If what you say is true (and I'm not saying it isn't) why wouldn't orders just say that they only permit virgins rather than not admitting annulees? Afterall, it's not just those who have been married who are not virgins.

[AlterDominicus]

Now I may have asthma and maybe allergic to all in the category of peanut butter, but I assure you...Mother Angelica is 83 and look at all she has including asthma. Mine was REAL serious, but it was because I was eatin PB everyday, and I MEAN everyday. But now its slim I get one.

[Mary-Kathryn]

I must admit that, as a convert, I am not understanding this clearly. Here is what I always thought [faulty as it may be]

All men and women are gifted with the "workings" of the human body. We have about the same chemicals, hormones and inner machinery. It may be just a guess, but I daresay those entering the religious life have the same--and I prefer to be very delicate here-- feelings as every other single, married, and widowed woman. Our female bodies naturally are in gear to conceive children. There is the right and rhythm to what God has made. Becoming a religious shouldn't [and I don't think it does] make one a piece of wood devoid of emotion. I believe they--the religious- offer their WHOLE person, including their sexuality, to God and for the Glory of God. I would think a religous must accept themselves as they were made body and soul; so they can mature, be formed by their order, and offer their whole self up for the glory of God and their vocation.

As far as the anullment goes...I have looked at a couple of male monastic websites...interestingly they make mention of formerly married males who have come to seek their life. They note these men had a diffiicult time adjusting to the way of life. I do not think it has so much to do with virginity, but rather the experience each order has had with those who have had annullments.

Besides, we would not have St Elizabeth Ann Seton, St Rita, Saint Jeanne de Chantel, etc....if all had to be virgins when entering a convent or founding an order!

~just my ramblings~

Mary-Kathryn

Edited April 28, 2006 by Mary-Kathryn

[OLAM Dad]

I've managed to totally side track this thread. Sorry Hughey.

Mary-Kathryn, I'm trying not to take this thread totally off the edge so let me just say that I agree with you.