Senate race in Pennsylvania

[Norseman82]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='964774' date='Apr 28 2006, 10:33 PM']
As for not agreeing with Bob Casey, on anything besides abortion, I would advise you to take a look at his platform. He has a great plan to reduce poverty and work for social justice in the United States and around the world. He has a great economic policy too that includes raising the minimum wage and protecting senior citizens. check it out at www.bobcaseyforpa.org

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So tell me, zwergel88, is "economic justice" worth it if its price is increasing sin and Planned Parenthood funding?

____ - Yes

____ - No

[quote name='Aloysius' post='963888' date='Apr 28 2006, 07:23 AM']
you mean the candidate who wants to end the evil of abortion by increasing the evils of contraception and family planning?

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[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='961615' date='Apr 26 2006, 10:26 AM']
Mr. Casey himself is emphasizing that while there is "tremendous disagreement" on abortion, there is also a broad consensus of which he is a part: to reduce the number of abortions by reducing the number of unintended pregnancies, through greater access to contraception and family planning.
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[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='961615' date='Apr 26 2006, 10:26 AM']
Senator Barbara Boxer, the California Democrat who for many years has squared off against Mr. Santorum on abortion, said she had been "making the case" for Mr. Casey "all over the country," arguing that his support for birth control, emergency contraception and international family planning programs made him a "huge improvement" over Mr. Santorum. She also reminds her audiences, she said, that Mr. Casey's election would help deliver control of the Senate to the Democrats.
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[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='961615' date='Apr 26 2006, 10:26 AM']


A spokeswoman for Mr. Santorum said the senator had voted consistently for spending bills that included family planning programs, and that "as a matter of public policy, Senator Santorum does not oppose birth control."

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[Socrates]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='965314' date='Apr 29 2006, 12:54 PM']
Again I find many errors in your comments. There are unfortunately a lot more ways to kill someone than through abortion. War, capital punishment, and poverty are just a few examples. You say that Rick Santorum is pro-life, I disagree with you, but I accept that he does in fact oppose abortion, however, it is a grave fallacy to say that the Republican party is pro-life, because there are numerous Republicans who support abortion as well as other threats to life. Senator Susan Collins, Rudy Gulliani, Arnold Scharwtzeneger, and Senator Arlin Spector are just a few.

I am very offended by you comment that voting for the Democratic party is voting for the pro-death party. Many democrats, including myself, have worked long and hard to end abortion, as well as all threats to life. Too, hard to have that effort degraded by the many people on the right who do nothing but polarize the country even further.
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There are many errors in your posts, Zwergel88.

As other posters have shown, this is a race between one candidate (Casey) who supports the culture of death by giving federal money to the pro-death organization Planned Parenthood, and for promoting contraception, and one who does not (Santorum).
For Catholics, the choice should be clear.

You need to put Catholic principles before your Democratic partisanship.
This was about the Pennsylvania Senate race, so bringing up Swarzenegger, Gulliani, and other politicians not in this particular race is a red herring (in fact, the Dem candidates were also pro-abortion in those states).

Let me quote to you from Cardinal Ratzinger (now His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI) speaking on politics:
[quote]3. [b]Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.[/b] For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment.[b] There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia[/b].[/quote]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=49982&hl="](Thread regarding some of the Pope's recent statements on politics here)[/url]

Abortion should be the primary moral issue for Catholic voters.
Life issues should take top precedent, not whether the candidate is Democrat or Republican or a "nice guy."

And using economic arguments here is just plain ridiculous. Many would strongly disagree with the assertion that Casey's economic policies are indeed better, and even if they were, this argument should never trump abortion as a moral "life issue."
Millions of unborn babies are murdered every day by abortion.
No one could seriously argue that millions would drop dead from starvation if Republican senators are elected rather than Democrats!
To say so would be partisan demogogary at its most moronic!

And the fact that you have said that you proudly supported the 100% pro-abortion John Kerry shows that life issues seem to play very little role in your voting decisions.

It's time you wise up, and start listening to the Pope and the Catholic Church regarding voting and moral issues, rather than Democratic Party propaganda.

[zwergel88]

[quote name='Socrates' post='966382' date='Apr 30 2006, 08:17 PM']
There are many errors in your posts, Zwergel88.


It's time you wise up, and start listening to the Pope and the Catholic Church regarding voting and moral issues, rather than Democratic Party propaganda.
[/quote]


You guys are making it out to be that Casey supports abortion. He doesn't. I understand that supported family planning is evil, but its not exactly the same thing as abortion. (I have a feeling that that is a whole other debate.)

Casey DOES NOT support abortion. I think the question you have to ask yourself is, will more people die with Santorum as senator or Casey as senator. I believe that there is a great possibility that with Casey in the senate, the congress will make great strides toward ending abortion, whereas Santorum only polarizes the country and makes any bipartisan cooperation impossible.

As for telling me to wise up, that comment offends me so much that I am resisting the urge to lash out at you right now. I'll vote for whoever I want and I don't need you to tell me how. I vote for whoever I think will protect human life the most, and because I know that Santorum is responsible for death and destruction worldwide, I know that Casey is the only morally permissible choice in this election.

Just because you guys seem to be total Republicans as far as I can tell, does not mean that a democrat cannot be the best person to protect life. If you agree with Rick Santorum on other issues and that is why you continue this debate, just name them and I'll be happy to debate them with you as well.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate; vote for whoever you want but please don't imply that you as my peer have the authority to tell me how to vote.

CASEY '06 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Socrates]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='966526' date='Apr 30 2006, 10:23 PM']
You guys are making it out to be that Casey supports abortion. He doesn't. I understand that supported family planning is evil, but its not exactly the same thing as abortion. (I have a feeling that that is a whole other debate.)

Casey DOES NOT support abortion. I think the question you have to ask yourself is, will more people die with Santorum as senator or Casey as senator. I believe that there is a great possibility that with Casey in the senate, the congress will make great strides toward ending abortion, whereas Santorum only polarizes the country and makes any bipartisan cooperation impossible.

As for telling me to wise up, that comment offends me so much that I am resisting the urge to lash out at you right now. I'll vote for whoever I want and I don't need you to tell me how. I vote for whoever I think will protect human life the most, and because I know that Santorum is responsible for death and destruction worldwide, I know that Casey is the only morally permissible choice in this election.

Just because you guys seem to be total Republicans as far as I can tell, does not mean that a democrat cannot be the best person to protect life. If you agree with Rick Santorum on other issues and that is why you continue this debate, just name them and I'll be happy to debate them with you as well.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate; vote for whoever you want but please don't imply that you as my peer have the authority to tell me how to vote.

CASEY '06 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Casey does support using tax dollars to supporting and promoting the evil of contraception, and supported Title-X funding, which would give your tax dollars to Planned Parenthood, which is the world's largest "provider" of abortions!

Santorum does not support these things, and has been one of the strongest pro-lifers in the Senate.

You make baseless, vague, and nebulous asssertions here for supporting Casey vs. Santorum (Casey would cause "great" strides toward ending abortion" while "Santorum only polarizes the country and makes any bipartisan cooperation impossible." "Santorum is responsible for death and destruction worldwide").

If you want to debate effectively you'll have to do better than that.

Read the quotes I provided and linked to from the Pope. Reflect on them. Understand them. Then come back to the debate.

And charging your opposition with being "total Republicans" is nonsense. We have explained specifically how Santorum is more pro-life, and more in line with Catholic teaching. And CMom, who started this thread, is a registered Democrat! The only one being blindly partisan here is you.

No one is putting a gun to your head and making you vote for anyone. Of course you can vote for whomever you want. But this is the Debate Table. And we can debate which candidate's positions are better. If you don't want others to disagree with you, then don't post here.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='965447' date='Apr 29 2006, 06:16 PM']
Well then I guess we have something in common. Maybe we should just get through the primaries before we start argueing too much. I think I can safely assume you'll vote for Casey in the primaries. Chuck Pennachio and Alan Sandals are not pro-life by anyone's standards and it would smell of elderberries if they won.
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not a chance

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='965314' date='Apr 29 2006, 01:54 PM']
I am very offended by you comment that voting for the Democratic party is voting for the pro-death party.
[/quote]

gwergel88, you're free to vote for whomever you choose once you're an adult but unless we are all open and honest about the facts debating them is pointless. While I agree that the Republican party needs to be more pro-life, no one can honestly argue that they aren't at least partially pro-life and they are certainly anti-abortion. To say that the Republican party is pro-abortion because some of it's members are is the same as saying that the Catholic Church is pro-abortion because of the actions of Kerry, Kennedy, and their ilk.

The facts.

[url="http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf"]From the DNC platform...[/url]

[quote]Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, [b]we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose[/b], consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. [/quote]

[url="http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf"]From the RNC platform...[/url]

[quote][b]Promoting a Culture of Life[/b]
As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' post='968108' date='May 2 2006, 08:18 AM']
gwergel88, you're free to vote for whomever you choose once you're an adult but unless we are all open and honest about the facts debating them is pointless. While I agree that the Republican party needs to be more pro-life, no one can honestly argue that they aren't at least partially pro-life and they are certainly anti-abortion. To say that the Republican party is pro-abortion because some of it's members are is the same as saying that the Catholic Church is pro-abortion because of the actions of Kerry, Kennedy, and their ilk.

The facts.

[url="http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf"]From the DNC platform...[/url]
[url="http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf"]From the RNC platform...[/url]
[/quote]