Jaime Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 (edited) We are called to be Catholics first and Americans second Dang it that was supposed to be added to my previous comment!! Edited May 1, 2006 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 To be fair, though, I was taught that any medical procedure to save a woman's life from complications of pregnancy was considered an "indirect abortion" if it led to the fetus' death, and while being of great tragedy was not in itself sinful. This I got from a high school CCD textbook, so take it as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='966453' date='Apr 30 2006, 11:27 PM'] It surprises me when Catholics ignore what the Church teaches on prolife. [/quote] You really need to learn proportional reasoning... You can fix this by thinking with logic. Voting for someone who has no chance of winning is a wasted vote. A little logic, first get someone in who can help get Row vs. Wade overturned... then address innocent uborn of rape and incest. Bush is pro-life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 (edited) [quote name='ironmonk' post='967229' date='May 1 2006, 01:21 PM'] You are one of the most ignorant on the board in regards to proportional reasoning... You can fix this by learning and start thinking with logic. Voting for someone who has no chance of winning is a wasted vote. A little logic, first get someone in who can help get Row vs. Wade overturned... then address innocent uborn of rape and incest. Bush is pro-life. [/quote] By continually stating that Bush is pro-life doesn't make it true. Your line of logic is so far off the mark its hard to keep up Bush believes in the three exceptions THEREFORE HE IS PROCHOICE. There is no gray area and I would suggest that you read the Church's teachings on abortion if you think that this is a prolife stance. You cannot be "mostly" pregnant You cannot be "mostly" for civil rights You cannot be "mostly" prolife And BTW I have no problems voting prolife in the last election. No vote is a wasted vote. Edited May 1, 2006 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Ok, honestly...does it make a difference if Bush is pro-life? He's in power and abortion is STILL LEGAL...what has changed - nothing. Honestly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='Peccator' post='967240' date='May 1 2006, 01:27 PM'] Ok, honestly...does it make a difference if Bush is pro-life? He's in power and abortion is STILL LEGAL...what has changed - nothing. Honestly... [/quote] No what makes a difference is when Catholics on the board mislabel him as something he is not (as defined by the Church) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='967245' date='May 1 2006, 08:30 PM'] No what makes a difference is when Catholics on the board mislabel him as something he is not (as defined by the Church) [/quote]Well, I can only speak for myself...I disagree with the war in Iraq, and I'll disagree when he goes to war in Iran. I do not believe was the only way, but thats just my opinion. ....and for the record, NO I'm not a liberal. I'm from a country where we have more than 2 political parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='967238' date='May 1 2006, 01:26 PM'] By continually stating that Bush is pro-life doesn't make it true. Your line of logic is so far off the mark its hard to keep up [clipped] You cannot be "mostly" pregnant You cannot be "mostly" for civil rights You cannot be "mostly" prolife [/quote] Would you feel better if we call him pro-life based? His arrow is pointing in the pro-life direction if not directly at the pro-life target. He has made a number of positive pro-life decisions. He did not put up two pro-death Supreme Court nominees. He has cut funding of foreign pro-choice organizations. He has put forth funding for faith based abstinence programs. He signed the partial birth abortion ban. These are not exactly moves a pro-choicer would approve of. [url="http://www.humanlifereview.com/2004_spring/georgewtruman.php"]This Human Life Review document[/url] covers some items he performed in his first term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='kamiller42' post='967518' date='May 1 2006, 04:28 PM'] Would you feel better if we call him pro-life based? His arrow is pointing in the pro-life direction if not directly at the pro-life target. He has made a number of positive pro-life decisions. He did not put up two pro-death Supreme Court nominees. He has cut funding of foreign pro-choice organizations. He has put forth funding for faith based abstinence programs. He signed the partial birth abortion ban. These are not exactly moves a pro-choicer would approve of. [url="http://www.humanlifereview.com/2004_spring/georgewtruman.php"]This Human Life Review document[/url] covers some items he performed in his first term.[/quote]My theory, (however biased and wrong it may be) is that some people like to pick out what's wrong in the other political party candidate so they can support their own party. It's like two negatives cancel each other out. It's easier to say Bush and Kerry are both Pro-Choice so that isn't an issue any more and then you can pick out another factor that makes one better than the other. Easier justification for a decision already made. I guess the demographics of phatmass is younger than I thought. I would have thought there would be more intrest in what positives we could do in Iraq, Iran, and the Sudan instead of endlessy justifying why we can hate a certain political person. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [quote name='Peccator' post='967240' date='May 1 2006, 12:27 PM'] Ok, honestly...does it make a difference if Bush is pro-life? He's in power and abortion is STILL LEGAL...what has changed - nothing. Honestly... [/quote] (Note: I hope I don't come off as condescending here. Since you're not American, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the American federal judicial system, so I thought I'd explain things. I myself am ignorant of the system in South Africa.) The only hope for pro-life legislation to make any headway here in America (both at the state and federal level) is for the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision (which ruled "unconstitutional" any restrictions on abortion) to be reversed. This can only be done if there is a pro-life majority in the Supreme Court. U.S. Supreme Court justices are appointed by the President, and stay for life, or until they choose to retire. Thus having a President who will appoint pro-life justices is vital. Several states (such as South Dakota) are working on state laws against abortion which would challenge Roe v. Wade. While the results of a pro-life presidency may not be immediate, (and there may not yet be a pro-life majority), getting the right people in the Supreme Court is crucial. If a liberal pro-abort president such as Kerry were in power, he would elect pro-abortion justices, and the hope of Roe v. Wade ever being reversed within our lifetimes would be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [quote name='kamiller42' post='967518' date='May 1 2006, 05:28 PM'] Would you feel better if we call him pro-life based? His arrow is pointing in the pro-life direction if not directly at the pro-life target. He has made a number of positive pro-life decisions. He did not put up two pro-death Supreme Court nominees. He has cut funding of foreign pro-choice organizations. He has put forth funding for faith based abstinence programs. He signed the partial birth abortion ban. These are not exactly moves a pro-choicer would approve of. [url="http://www.humanlifereview.com/2004_spring/georgewtruman.php"]This Human Life Review document[/url] covers some items he performed in his first term. [/quote] Let's turn it around You've got a friend who goes to mass. He believes in everything the Catholic Church teaches except for the Eucharist. He thinks its symbolic. Would you call him Catholic? Is he Catholic based? No he isn't. I have not denied that he has done things to promote a culture of life. He may have put two people on the bench that he would disagree with as far as abortion. People define Bush as prolife in secular terms. That's their perogative. If Ironmonk and folks around here would rather look at things in a secular manner, that's up to them. From a Catholic perspective, there is no wiggle room when it comes to abortion. You are either prolife or prochoice. If you support abortion in any cases, you are prochoice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailahína Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' post='967238' date='May 1 2006, 12:26 PM'] By continually stating that Bush is pro-life doesn't make it true. Your line of logic is so far off the mark its hard to keep up Bush believes in the three exceptions THEREFORE HE IS PROCHOICE. There is no gray area and I would suggest that you read the Church's teachings on abortion if you think that this is a prolife stance. You cannot be "mostly" pregnant You cannot be "mostly" for civil rights You cannot be "mostly" prolife And BTW I have no problems voting prolife in the last election. No vote is a wasted vote. [/quote] Well if Bush is "mostly" prolife (even though you cannot be "mostly" prolife) I'd rather vote for him then Kerry who IS NOT prolife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [quote name='Azriel' post='966175' date='Apr 30 2006, 04:08 PM'] Its no secret that I don't like how the man has run the country...that doesn't mean I hate 'em. Actually, I think he'd be fun to hang out with. [/quote] One could learn a whole lot of cool new words to use. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealousrap Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq1.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq2.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq3.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq4.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq5.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq6.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq7.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq8.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq9.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq10.jpg[/img] [url="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq11.jpg"]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq11.jpg[/url] [url="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq12.jpg"]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/zealousrap/iraq12.jpg[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailahína Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 you couldn't have 'shown' it better Zealous! Good choice in pictures by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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