What would you say if your priest

[Laudate_Dominum]

whoa.. its Todd.. how are you man? I miss our late night yahoo chats.
I've been away from home working for a couple months now which stinks.. Are you still applying to Fordham? Peace.

[ironmonk]

There will never be female priests.

Denominations that have "female priests" don't have priests, they have women trying to act like a priest... nothing in this world can make a female priest.

[b]1 Tim. 2:9 [/b]
Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes,
[b]10 [/b] but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.
[b]11 [/b] A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.
[b]12 [/b] [u]I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet. [/u]
[b]13 [/b] For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
[b]14 [/b] Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
[b]15 [/b] But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Women_and_the_Priesthood.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Women_and_the_Priesthood.asp[/url]

[b]Irenaeus[/b]

"Pretending to consecrate cups mixed with wine, and protracting to great length the word of invocation, [Marcus the Gnostic heretic] contrives to give them a purple and reddish color. . . . [H]anding mixed cups to the women, he bids them consecrate these in his presence.

"When this has been done, he himself produces another cup of much larger size than that which the deluded woman has consecrated, and pouring from the smaller one consecrated by the woman into that which has been brought forward by himself, he at the same time pronounces these words: ‘May that Charis who is before all things and who transcends all knowledge and speech fill your inner man and multiply in you her own knowledge, by sowing the grain of mustard seed in you as in good soil.’

"Repeating certain other similar words, and thus goading on the wretched woman [to madness], he then appears a worker of wonders when the large cup is seen to have been filled out of the small one, so as even to overflow by what has been obtained from it. By accomplishing several other similar things, he has completely deceived many and drawn them away after him" (Against Heresies 1:13:2 [A.D. 189]).


[b]Tertullian[/b]

"It is of no concern how diverse be their [the heretics’] views, so long as they conspire to erase the one truth. They are puffed up; all offer knowledge. Before they have finished as catechumens, how thoroughly learned they are! And the heretical women themselves, how shameless are they! They make bold to teach, to debate, to work exorcisms, to undertake cures . . . " (Demurrer Against the Heretics 41:4–5 [A.D. 200]).

"[A female heretic], lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. . . . But we, little fishes, after the example of our Icthus [Greek, "Fish"], Jesus Christ, are born in water . . . so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water" (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

"It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34–35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office" (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]).

[b]Hippolytus[/b]

"When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all" (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).

[b]The Didascalia[/b]

"For it is not to teach that you women . . . are appointed. . . . For he, God the Lord, Jesus Christ our Teacher, sent us, the twelve [apostles], out to teach the [chosen] people and the pagans. But there were female disciples among us: Mary of Magdala, Mary the daughter of Jacob, and the other Mary; he did not, however, send them out with us to teach the people. For, if it had been necessary that women should teach, then our Teacher would have directed them to instruct along with us" (Didascalia 3:6:1–2 [A.D. 225]).


[b]Council of Nicaea I[/b]

"Similarly, in regard to the deaconesses, as with all who are enrolled in the register, the same procedure is to be observed. We have made mention of the deaconesses, who have been enrolled in this position, although, not having been in any way ordained, they are certainly to be numbered among the laity" (Canon 19 [A.D. 325]).


[b]Council of Laodicea[/b]

"[T]he so-called ‘presbyteresses’ or ‘presidentesses’ are not to be ordained in the Church" (Canon 11 [A.D. 360]).








As for people who claim that "all" these priest support this heretic notion of female ordination - I call BS. These people lie. There might be a few Catholic priests in error, but it is far from the numbers that they claim. Those who go against God have no problem lying... it's in their nature.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='964113' date='Apr 28 2006, 08:53 AM']
whoa.. its Todd.. how are you man? I miss our late night yahoo chats.
I've been away from home working for a couple months now which stinks.. Are you still applying to Fordham? Peace.
[/quote]
I'm doing well. I passed my comprehensive examinations with honors, and so I finally have my Masters degree, which will be awarded in May. Sadly I will not be able to attend the commencement ceremony, because I have a job teaching theology at a Catholic high school in the SF Bay Area, but such is life.

As far as my doctoral studies are concerned, I will be applying at Fordham (and some other schools) later this year, but I will most likely delay actual entry into a program because of my mother's ongoing illness.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Niccolò' post='963849' date='Apr 28 2006, 04:33 AM']
All right, thank you, it seems a bit clearer to me now. What then was the status of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception before Ineffabilis Deus? Was it simply an undefined idea that wasn't yet doctrine or was it on the level of infallibility due to the Ordinary Magisterium (I would suppose this would rely on the statements of previous popes and councils, though I know Trent made a point not to address the Immaculate Conception)?
[/quote]
It is important to note that the faith, as St. Jude said, "was once for all delivered to the saints" [Jude, v. 3]; and so, the modern concept of "doctrinal development" does not involve a change or mutation in the faith of the Church. In other words, Christians of today believe exactly the same things that the Apostles believed, because all public revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle.

Nevertheless, there is a certain growth in the understanding of the faith over the centuries, that is, there is a growth in the level of certitude assigned to a particular truth of the faith as the Church's Magisterium [i]teaches[/i] (through her Ordinary and Universal Magisterium) or [i]defines[/i] (through her Extraordinary Magisterium) certain doctrinal propositions, all of which are implicitly contained within the deposit of faith, or which are intimately connected to it by either an historical or a logical relationship [See the CDF's [u]Official Doctrinal Commentary on the Professio Fidei[/u], no. 7].

Now, in the case of the Immaculate Conception the level of certitude attached to this doctrine greatly increased from the end of the high middle ages to the 19th century, so much so that by the mid 19th century the Church's Magisterium was able to explicitly define the Immaculate Conception as a dogma of divine and Catholic faith. Prior to the 19th century, from about the 15th century until the time of the definition issued by Blessed Pope Pius IX in A.D. 1854, the Immaculate Conception was a truth of Catholic doctrine, that is, it was taught as [i]de fide tenenda[/i], but not as [i]de fide credenda[/i], and as such it was to be held definitively by all the Christian faithful [See Pope Sixtus IV's Constitution [u]Grave Nimis[/u] issued in A.D. 1483, and the Council of Trent's decree, [u]On Original Sin[/u], no. 6, issued in A.D. 1546].

In much the same way the teaching on the reservation of priestly ordination to men alone is a definitive doctrine of the Church intimately connected to divine revelation, although not yet defined as a dogma of divine and Catholic faith. Nevertheless, as Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) pointed out in the CDF's [u]Official Doctrinal Commentary on the Professio Fidei[/u], the fact that the reservation of priestly ordination to men alone is a doctrine [i]de fide tenenda[/i] does ". . . not foreclose the possibility that, in the future, the consciousness of the Church might progress to the point where this teaching could be defined as a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed" [Cardinal Ratzinger, the CDF's [u]Official Doctrinal Commentary on the Professio Fidei[/u], no. 11].

I hope this helps to clarify matters for you,

God bless,
Todd

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='960885' date='Apr 25 2006, 05:44 PM']
Vote!
[/quote]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Tarcisius' post='961993' date='Apr 26 2006, 06:14 PM']
Thats interesting, we were in the same room adam, I was sitting right by Dr. Miravalle. You are right in that Schreck did try to correct her, but only after she was allowed to espouse her ludicrous ideas for quite some time and truly, come on, even you wished he had said more. I wonder if FUS would ever invite an SSPX Priest to share his ideas and then try to evangelize him. I will give it up for Miravalle though, I think he almost busted up laughing when she said she thought her ordination should be valid in the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

Did you stick around for their discussion afterwards?

I don't recall her ever saying she expected her ordination to be accepted by the Catholic Church. Regardless though it proves my point. If you refuse to listen to others, you have no right to be heard. The Church thankfully is not the quasi-legal system that false traditionalism makes it out to be.

And I suppose that really is the term that should be put to it since orthodox, faithful Catholics have been labled 'neocons' by our wayward Catholic brethren.

[Resurrexi]

I cant believe four pmers are such heretics that they would believe in priestesses!

[Brother Adam]

Not all people here are Catholic.

I personally would be tempted to click on the first option given that you actually make options like "You heretic! You accursed horrible priest! You deserve to be solemnly excommunicated and never be allowed to say Mass, hear Confessions, Administer the Sacraments, give spiritual advice, or preach again!" But I suppose if your first option is going to be extreme and anti-Catholic the last option should be too huh? But then I couldn't vote because the best answer, the valid, charitable, and Catholic answer is lacking from the options.

[Resurrexi]

my last option was not anti-Catholic! It was more Catholic than all your posts put together!

[cappie]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='964748' date='Apr 29 2006, 01:48 PM']
my last option was not anti-Catholic! It was more Catholic than all your posts put together!
[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='cappie' post='964837' date='Apr 29 2006, 03:31 AM']

[/quote]

Exactly Father!

Anyone who thinks that disrespecting a Catholic priest and a total lack of charity is Catholic, is Rather it is an anti-Catholic attitude and helps prove that "false-traditionalists" are anti-Catholic.

And STM,

"It was more Catholic than all your posts put together!" And these empty personal attacks do nothing for your own credibility.

[cmotherofpirl]

Rudeness is NOT a catholic virtue, and I seriously doubt you would ever walk up to a consecrated man of God and say that to him.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

I am not going to abandon the teachings and traditions of my faith because of sexism. Even if it is not a HUGE form, but, being a woman, there is the religous life. That is not God's plan for woman priests.

[Niccolò]

[quote]I hope this helps to clarify matters for you,[/quote]

Thank you, you have been most helpful.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='964148' date='Apr 28 2006, 11:14 AM']
I'm doing well. I passed my comprehensive examinations with honors, and so I finally have my Masters degree, which will be awarded in May. Sadly I will not be able to attend the commencement ceremony, because I have a job teaching theology at a Catholic high school in the SF Bay Area, but such is life.[/quote]

May I ask where? I went to Marin Catholic.

[thessalonian]

I did hear a priest say that in a sermon. After the sermon I went up to him and basically said "when hell freezes over". Though maybe the better answer is "when the gates of hell prevail".