What would you say if your priest

[toledo_jesus]

I'd say...


[size=7]SLAP![/size][img]http://members.tripod.com/AngryLush/RJames204.jpg[/img]


No, that would excommunicate me...But I would be very upset.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='961132' date='Apr 25 2006, 09:37 PM']
by ordinary papal infallibility, yes.
[/quote]

Actually by Ordinary Universal Magisterium...not by the Pope.

I think there's an old argument on this, but I'm very adamant. :

[quote]

CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

October 28, 1995

Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.

Responsum: In the affirmative.

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

that is what ordinary papal infallibility is-- it does not draw authority from itself but from the ordinary universal magisterium.

HOWEVER, the ordinary universal magisterium is some pie in the sky structure of ambiguity... I'd dare anyone to try to prove something has been taught by the ordinary universal magisterium. That's why we have the ordinary papal magisterium-- the Pope basically puts a stamp on something as being taught by the ordinary universal magisterium infallibly by his ordinary magisterium.

i.e. the Pope cannot err in saying what is infallible by the ordinary universal magisterium. it's like an infallible teaching that something is infallible.

like Pius XII in Humanari Generis; without that document you'd need a billion documents to prove that the Church has universally and always taught that Adam and Eve were two distinct historical individuals. But Pius XII infallibly says that the Church has always taught they were two distinct historical individuals

[Apotheoun]

The fact that a woman cannot be ordained as a priest has not been [i]defined[/i] by the Church through a solemn act of the Extraordinary Magisterium; instead, it has been taught infallibly through a [i]non-defining[/i] act of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, and this teaching has been confirmed as [i]de fide tenenda[/i] by an official and irrevocable declaration issued by Pope John Paul II in 1994.

Thus, it is impossible for a woman to validly receive sacred ordination to the presbyterate.

[Myles Domini]

Yup, yup, yup its an impossibility so I voted that way but my parish priest would never say something so ridiculous anyways.

[cmotherofpirl]

Hi Appy!

I heard a priest say that many many years ago. I simply treated it as a joke and laughed in his face.
I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I simply couldn't help it. I had never heard such nonsense before.

[homeschoolmom]

I cannot imagine any priest that I know saying such a thing. So, how am I supposed to vote?

[jasJis]

It's pointless. It's a childish and unlikely question with inadequate choices without mature responses, such as asking the priest to clarify what he said and asking how does that work with JPII's statement the Church doesn't have the athority to ordain women?

[MC Just]

[quote name='Socrates' post='960892' date='Apr 25 2006, 06:59 PM']
My parish priest would never make such a moronic statement.
[/quote]

yeah likewise. My priest is too orthodox for such non-sense.

[Fulton Sheen Warrior]

+JMJ+

......

Scrtipture never said we could

Tradition says we never have

The Magisterium says we never will.

To all psuedo theologians:

LET IT GO!!!

Pax Vobis

Fulton

[Norseman82]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='961359' date='Apr 26 2006, 06:21 AM']
I heard a priest say that many many years ago. I simply treated it as a joke and laughed in his face.
I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I simply couldn't help it. I had never heard such nonsense before.
[/quote]

Actually, that whole subject was the subject of discussion last year among parishoners who attended the first mass of a priest assigned to our parish. The pastor of the parish where the new priest had interned apparently made a statement looking forward to the day when women would be ordained. The two reactions I heard were:

1) One of my associates in the parish young adult group who was in attendance wrote a letter to Cardinal George expressing her concern at any possible infection this pastor may have caused the newly ordained priest.

2) Our outgoing associate pastor who was concelebrating the mass has to cover his mouth to conceal the fact he was cracking up in disbelief in public view in the sanctuary.

My personal approach would be to gather a group of people around the priest, surround him, extend hands over him, and pray the prayer to Our Lady of Victory:

[url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english/p00001.htm"]http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english/p00001.htm[/url]

[Sarah_JC]

I'd say
"If Christ wanted women priests, he'd have made them. He went against the social structures of the times giving women many important roles: look at Mary Magdalene, the first to see him risen. To change the male-only priesthood to allow women, is to suggest that Christ was wrong about something. This is the heresy."

Because I honestly believe that those who support such things do not understand why it can't happen. I don't believe these people are on the whole malovent, just misinformed and confused.

(Please tell me if I'm missing something... I encounter this question often as a youth minister, and I'd love to be clearer.)

[toledo_jesus]

I'd remind Father that women belong in the kitchen and not behind the altar. Then he'd come to his senses and say, "Ahh, how could I forget?" and we'd be right as rain.

[Niccolò]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='961313' date='Apr 25 2006, 11:55 PM']
The fact that a woman cannot be ordained as a priest has not been [i]defined[/i] by the Church through a solemn act of the Extraordinary Magisterium; instead, it has been taught infallibly through a [i]non-defining[/i] act of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, and this teaching has been confirmed as [i]de fide tenenda[/i] by an official and irrevocable declaration issued by Pope John Paul II in 1994.

Thus, it is impossible for a woman to validly receive sacred ordination to the presbyterate.
[/quote]

Ok, what's the difference between the Extraordinary Magisterium (which, when excercised by popes, has only two examples that I'm aware of: defining the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and that of the Assumption) and that of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium? This is a bit unclear to me. Take for example the bull by Pius IX that declared the Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus) and it's defining paragraph:

[quote]We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful. [/quote]

And compare this to Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

[quote]Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.[/quote]

Other than the obvious stylistic differences between Ineffabilis Deus and Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, what is it that makes one an example of the Extraordinary Magisterium being excercised and the other and example of Ordinary and Universal Magisterium? I can easily see how one is a dogma and the other isn't, but could not a second-level doctrine, such as the impossibility of women being priests, though not a dogma be nevertheless defined by the Extraordinary Magisterium?

Or is the only reason that one is extraordinary and the other ordinary is that the CDF clarified them as such?

[Tarcisius]

For all of you saying that my Priest is far to orthodox etc, remember that there are plenty that see no problem with women priestesses. I wonder if this discussions would have been the same pre vatII if we were instead talking about altar girls.

Last semester FUS invited an anglican priestess to speak about Mary.... she said she had the support of many Catholic Priests and said a number of her Priests told her that they would genuflect upon entering her church. She received very little objection from students or staff and was allowed to preach about how she was validly ordained and could confer sacrements etc etc.