MichaelFilo Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 beaver dam, I'd hate for you to be dictator of the world. It's not because I hate porno, but it's really freaking hard to punish someone for something they don't neccessarily believe is wrong, or at least have reasoned an excuse for their actions. At any rate the natural law is written in men's hearts. That sodomy is wrong is hardly something that is imposing on anyone, as even the person who has these attractions understands it is not within accord with the rest of humanity. Murder is another one of those things. Natural law includes much less than you think. The natural conclusions of some of those things of natural law are, while a natural conclusion of it, not neccessarily natural law itself. For instance, we know that adultery is wrong, anyone could tell breaking the marriage bond is wrong, but to say that that also somehow includes having sex before marriage isn't neccessarily true. Of course, it is a natural conclusion that if breaking the marriage bond by means of sex outside of the marriage is wrong, then surely sex outside of marriage before marriage has much the same effect.. etc. I could be dead wrong, but it sort of seems that way. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 [quote name='MichaelFilo' post='960849' date='Apr 25 2006, 04:35 PM'] beaver dam, I'd hate for you to be dictator of the world. It's not because I hate porno, but it's really freaking hard to punish someone for something they don't neccessarily believe is wrong, or at least have reasoned an excuse for their actions. [/quote] I'm sure plenty of murderers, thieves, and rapists don't neccessarily believe their crimes are wrong, or at least have reasoned an excuse for their actions. Law cannot become subjective on the personal beliefs of the perp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Of course, but can you throw someone in jail for something that is legal? I mean, can one throw a marijuana smoker in Amsterdam in jail? Jail is a punishment for things against the civil law, and it would seem that if one became a dictator, then to put someone in jail for something that was legal before the laws changed is, to say the least, retarded. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='959631' date='Apr 24 2006, 08:49 PM'] They should most definetly be made illegal. [/quote] Your position is contrary to the Natural and the opinion of St. Thomas the Angelic Doctor. The government has no business in my interior life, nor in Ecclesial matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 What's the CC's official stance? Is there one? So of course we ban murderers etc; they are bring the innocent into their sin and harm. I'm referring moreso to the opposite sort. I did say all sins against the natural law, mind you, for those who are voting to keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 There will be no way to ban sin because we have free will. Of course we will be in times of temptation, and sometimes we will fall. But, if we were to ban sins, then what was Jesus' purpose to come here on earth? We need to take more time to pray and spending more time in churches then finding ways to ban sin, because only by the grace of God can we avoid sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 Yes doesn't it seem weird that someone can be in jail for masturbating while to God they are forgiven? Of course, lots of people are in jail for doing things that hurt other people, but that's what have to do to ensure they get the punishment to prevent more and to deter more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 There is a line that needs to be drawn between those sins that have a direct, negative impact on social health and those that have merely a corrosive effect if left unchecked. Sins that have a corrosive effect on society, if left unchecked, are those sins which we all commit from time to time which have an impact on ourselves, personally, and on those around us. It is possible to PERSONALLY engage in a certainamount of damage control after having comitted one of these sins. A sin of this kind might be saying something despicable to a friend or family member in the heat of an emotional reaction. One can apologize for this kind of thing. One can DO something concrete to minimze the effect of this kind of sin. On the other hand, it is utterly impossible to control the damage that is done by posting pornography on the internet, or by publishing it on magazine racks. This sin proliferates itself exponentially because of its very nature. This is the kind of sin that governments should make illegal. This is the kind of sin that can turn a society of basically good folks into a society of rapists, fornicators, molesters and murderers. Yes, there are some sins which are not currently illegal, but should be made so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Define 'natural law' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 The state should not make it illegal to not believe in God. Coersived belief is not belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' post='967216' date='May 1 2006, 08:16 PM'] The state should not make it illegal to not believe in God. Coersived belief is not belief. [/quote] Indeed...neither should one be forced to Catholic or Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 [quote name='Cow of Shame' post='967163' date='May 1 2006, 11:51 AM'] Define 'natural law' [/quote] A code of moral conduct embedded in the metaphysical framework of reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Martin luther King wrote some great natural law from the jail...google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 [quote name='Desert Walker' post='969598' date='May 3 2006, 11:36 AM'] A code of moral conduct embedded in the metaphysical framework of reality... [/quote] So we're basing this discussion on the assumption that there is Truth, ....except we're incapable of knowing it in it's entirety. How can we ban something we can't understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Walker Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 [quote name='Cow of Shame' post='970452' date='May 3 2006, 09:42 PM'] So we're basing this discussion on the assumption that there is Truth, ....except we're incapable of knowing it in it's entirety. How can we ban something we can't understand? [/quote] The Church defines natural law in linguistic terms. Thus, we gain an abstract understanding of it. Then you just convince legislators that the definition offered by the Church corresponds with a proper understanding of the human person in society. Or rather, the teaching of the church accurately addresses human reality. It's not like it hasn't ever been done, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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