God's will or mine?

[SeekingHisPlan]

Lately, I have been really bothered by thoughts that perhaps my wish to enter religious life is God's will and not mine. I have just become so scared that my pride has allowed me to think so loftily of myself as to elevate myself to the vocation of Christ's bride.

The other day, while in adoration, I wrote this:

[i]I come to pray before the Blessed Sacrament, and immediately, there is a sense of peace, of leaving the rest of the world behind for a little while and basking in His presence.

I had grand plans today for the structure of my prayer time. I was going to pick a scripture, meditate on it, ask God for His grace. But I read several Psalms and then just sit, gazing at Jesus. The Bible is open on my lap, but for the moment, I find that I don't need the scriptures to speak to me. I have Jesus and that is enough. I ask Him, "Lord, what am I to do? How am I to serve? Am I to be Your bride?" My heart leaps for joy at the thought- because I want it, or because He wills it? I must ask for guidance.

There is, today, a sense of a very personal relationship with the Lord; the risen Lord. I gaze at the host in the monstrance, and I realize wtih new gravity that He suffered for [b]me[/b] He died for [b]me.[/b] And in the joy of Easter, He rose for [b]me.[/b]

My mind creates an image of the risen Lord. He stands before the altar, clothed in white and in light. He is scarred, but He has borne the wounds and He has His triumph over death. He is risen and His triumph has
saved me.

What am I to this risen Jesus? Does He call me to be His spouse, or is that merely a lofty invention of my
proud mind? Veni Jesu, amor mi! Help me to discern what you ask of me![/i]
__________________________________________

I have been praying a lot about this for the last few days. The night before last, I was led to reflect on Wisdom 3: 1-9. I read through it and it kept bringing me to mind of the way that most of the world views new Brothers, Sisters and Priests as they leave their homes and everything familiar and set off in fulfillment of their vocation, and how these pilgrims are comforted by the knowledge that those who do God's will have their reward in heaven. And I couldn't trust it yet. I kept asking, "What if I am gravitating towards this interpretation because it is the one I want for my life and not because it is what God wants.

Then last night in prayer, I was lead to reflect on Luke 11: 5-13. And it drove home two points. The first is that God cares for me so infinitely that He will only ever give me what is good for me, never something that is bad. He will not allow me to be decieved. I was struck by the symbolism of "If your child asks for a fish [a symbol of Christ and His 'fishers of men'], who among you will give him a snake?" [the symbol of the evil one.] If I sincerely seek God's will, He will not allow the evil one to lead me astray. The second point is that, through persistence of prayer, I will gain what I need from God.

For now, I need to learn how to trust that God will show me the right path and lead me in His way.

Edited April 23, 2006 by SeekingHisPlan

[Theologian in Training]

I don't understand the problem. If is God's will that you enter religious life, then for you to have discerned that has definitely put you in a place many wish they can be. We spend our entire lives trying to discern God's will, some decisions more lofty than others, but always a discernment process.

Reading what you wrote though, it does not sound as though the two wills are all that different. In fact, it almost sounds as though two hearts are beating as one, as it were. His will should be your will, and that is what it sounds like to me.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting something, but, to be honest, I don't quite see the difficulty as you perceive it to be.

[SeekingHisPlan]

Basically, my difficulty and my fear is that this wish to enter religious life and the conviction that it is right is a creation of my own mind. I know that not everyone who ever feels the stirrings of a religious vocation is ultimately called to the religious life. My fear about my own wish for religious life is that perhaps it is NOT God's will, but simply an idea that I have cultivated because of my own pride in the thought of being called to such a holy, sacred thing.

My prayers are that, if entering the religious life is God's will for me, He will show me that it *is* His will and not a creation of my own mind, and if it is NOT God's will, that I will have my eyes open to see that and to see what else He has for me.

Apologies for the least clear self-espression I think I have ever put in writing.

Edited April 23, 2006 by SeekingHisPlan

[Theologian in Training]

That is why there is a process of discernment, no one knows for sure what they are called to do, but discern that calling. It takes time, prayer, more time, and more prayer. My question though is why do you think it is your idea to enter religious life?

If you are honest with yourself and realize the sacrifice it entails, can you honestly say that you would choose that life even if God did not want it for you?

I hope I don't scandalize you, but when I first felt the call to priesthood, I immediately denied it and told God He had the wrong person. I was not as willing as others would be, perhaps because I realized the sacrifice that it entails. Yet, the fact that I fought though, was actually a clear indication that I did not want it, but God did. Of course, since then I have grown in my vocation and accepted it, but it is really not something most people choose for themselves, rather something God chooses for them.

The fact that you feel drawn to religious life may not be an indication that you are trying to follow your own will, it just may mean that you are more open to God's will than I and others have been.

BTW, He won't come down one night and tell you what it is you need to do, rather, it will be revealed throughout your life and you will be guided by that.

[shortnun]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='957376' date='Apr 22 2006, 07:09 PM']
Basically, my difficulty and my fear is that this wish to enter religious life and the conviction that it is right is a creation of my own mind. I know that not everyone who ever feels the stirrings of a religious vocation is ultimately called to the religious life. My fear about my own wish for religious life is that perhaps it is NOT God's will, but simply an idea that I have cultivated because of my own pride in the thought of being called to such a holy, sacred thing.
[/quote]
I'm going to ask that pesky (yet necessary) question that is so frequently asked: Do you have a sprititual director? If so, then clearly the two of you have a relationship where s/he can affirm you in your vocation if it is not in fact a creation purely your own. Also rest in knowing that God plants so many seeds in our heart throughout our life, and this particular seed of your vocation may just need a little extra care and attention right now so that it can blossom and produce a fruit (either that you enter religious life, are an advocate for religious life, help nurture religious vocations in others, or all of the above!).

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='957387' date='Apr 22 2006, 07:19 PM']
BTW, He won't come down one night and tell you what it is you need to do, rather, it will be revealed throughout your life and you will be guided by that.
[/quote]
Theo, it's a great point you make. I think there are many of us--particulary when it comes to our vocation in life--who wish to have a St. Paul-like experience! But there is something beautiful about discovering the path that God has laid out for us since the beginning of time, about finding it's ups and downs and curves. The more are hearts become like His, the more we can hear and understand His will for us.

Prayers!

[SeekingHisPlan]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='957387' date='Apr 22 2006, 08:19 PM']

If you are honest with yourself and realize the sacrifice it entails, can you honestly say that you would choose that life even if God did not want it for you?

I hope I don't scandalize you, but when I first felt the call to priesthood, I immediately denied it and told God He had the wrong person. I was not as willing as others would be, perhaps because I realized the sacrifice that it entails. Yet, the fact that I fought though, was actually a clear indication that I did not want it, but God did. Of course, since then I have grown in my vocation and accepted it, but it is really not something most people choose for themselves, rather something God chooses for them.[/quote]

Way to call it, actually. When it first occured to me over a year ago, I was a recent revert to my faith; still stubborn, willful and too opinionated for my own good. When the idea of a religious vocation first penetrated my thick skull, I nearly expired from laughing. "Oh boy," I said to God, "have you got the WRONG lady!" Of course, the idea kept persisiting and I kept kicking and fighting and screaming, "Not me, God!" I finally came to some peace about it back at Christmas.

And so, of course, in those moments when I am thinking clearly, I can ask myself, "How in the would could you think you created an idea you struggled so hard against?" But still, somehow I have to wonder if something in my brain is holding onto this idea of a religious vocation long after I should have let it go. *sigh* (I joked to a friend of mine the other day that Satan must have a field day with psychology majors because we overthink absolutely EVERYTHING. That can lend itself to such maddening slowness to trust.

[quote]BTW, He won't come down one night and tell you what it is you need to do, rather, it will be revealed throughout your life and you will be guided by that.
[/quote]

Of course. I don't expect a "bolt from the sky" or anything similar. I know that I need to watch and pray and examine my life and God will lead me where He wants me to go. Right now though, a little part of me can't help wishing for God to reach down and shake me by the shoulders and say, "Listen kiddo. Here's what you're supposed to do, OK?" But if the answers were easy, they would not require faith, woud they?

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='957306' date='Apr 22 2006, 05:57 PM']
Lately, I have been really bothered by thoughts that perhaps my wish to enter religious life is God's will and not mine. I have just become so scared that my pride has allowed me to think so loftily of myself as to elevate myself to the vocation of Christ's bride.

The other day, while in adoration, I wrote this:

[i]I come to pray before the Blessed Sacrament, and immediately, there is a sense of peace, of leaving the rest of the world behind for a little while and basking in His presence.

I had grand plans today for the structure of my prayer time. I was going to pick a scripture, meditate on it, ask God for His grace. But I read several Psalms and then just sit, gazing at Jesus. The Bible is open on my lap, but for the moment, I find that I don't need the scriptures to speak to me. I have Jesus and that is enough. I ask Him, "Lord, what am I to do? How am I to serve? Am I to be Your bride?" My heart leaps for joy at the thought- because I want it, or because He wills it? I must ask for guidance.

There is, today, a sense of a very personal relationship with the Lord; the risen Lord. I gaze at the host in the monstrance, and I realize wtih new gravity that He suffered for [b]me[/b] He died for [b]me.[/b] And in the joy of Easter, He rose for [b]me.[/b]

My mind creates an image of the risen Lord. He stands before the altar, clothed in white and in light. He is scarred, but He has borne the wounds and He has His triumph over death. He is risen and His triumph has
saved me.

What am I to this risen Jesus? Does He call me to be His spouse, or is that merely a lofty invention of my
proud mind? Veni Jesu, amor mi! Help me to discern what you ask of me![/i]
__________________________________________

I have been praying a lot about this for the last few days. The night before last, I was led to reflect on Wisdom 3: 1-9. I read through it and it kept bringing me to mind of the way that most of the world views new Brothers, Sisters and Priests as they leave their homes and everything familiar and set off in fulfillment of their vocation, and how these pilgrims are comforted by the knowledge that those who do God's will have their reward in heaven. And I couldn't trust it yet. I kept asking, "What if I am gravitating towards this interpretation because it is the one I want for my life and not because it is what God wants.

Then last night in prayer, I was lead to reflect on Luke 11: 5-13. And it drove home two points. The first is that God cares for me so infinitely that He will only ever give me what is good for me, never something that is bad. He will not allow me to be decieved. I was struck by the symbolism of "If your child asks for a fish [a symbol of Christ and His 'fishers of men'], who among you will give him a snake?" [the symbol of the evil one.] If I sincerely seek God's will, He will not allow the evil one to lead me astray. The second point is that, through persistence of prayer, I will gain what I need from God.

For now, I need to learn how to trust that God will show me the right path and lead me in His way.
[/quote]

Just to let you know, I struggled with this for a long time and I totally understand what you are feeling. I came to the conviction that God opens some doors, and some He keeps closed. Just go through the open doors and follow his voice. If you think it's you making up the call, ask God to correct you if you are wrong. Then let it be, and continue on your way.
That's just what works for me.

[SeekingHisPlan]

[quote name='shortnun' post='957426' date='Apr 22 2006, 08:48 PM']
I'm going to ask that pesky (yet necessary) question that is so frequently asked: Do you have a sprititual director? If so, then clearly the two of you have a relationship where s/he can affirm you in your vocation if it is not in fact a creation purely your own. Also rest in knowing that God plants so many seeds in our heart throughout our life, and this particular seed of your vocation may just need a little extra care and attention right now so that it can blossom and produce a fruit (either that you enter religious life, are an advocate for religious life, help nurture religious vocations in others, or all of the above!).
Theo, it's a great point you make. I think there are many of us--particulary when it comes to our vocation in life--who wish to have a St. Paul-like experience! But there is something beautiful about discovering the path that God has laid out for us since the beginning of time, about finding it's ups and downs and curves. The more are hearts become like His, the more we can hear and understand His will for us.

Prayers!
[/quote]


I finally got off my lazy tush and got myself a spiritual director, but we have only met once, so we haven't gotten a chance to talk about this issue. You can bet it will come up at our next meeting.

Thank you for your prayers and wise words.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='957432' date='Apr 22 2006, 08:50 PM']
Way to call it, actually. When it first occured to me over a year ago, I was a recent revert to my faith; still stubborn, willful and too opinionated for my own good. When the idea of a religious vocation first penetrated my thick skull, I nearly expired from laughing. "Oh boy," I said to God, "have you got the WRONG lady!" Of course, the idea kept persisiting and I kept kicking and fighting and screaming, "Not me, God!" I finally came to some peace about it back at Christmas.

And so, of course, in those moments when I am thinking clearly, I can ask myself, "How in the would could you think you created an idea you struggled so hard against?" But still, somehow I have to wonder if something in my brain is holding onto this idea of a religious vocation long after I should have let it go. *sigh* (I joked to a friend of mine the other day that Satan must have a field day with psychology majors because we overthink absolutely EVERYTHING. That can lend itself to such maddening slowness to trust.
Of course. I don't expect a "bolt from the sky" or anything similar. I know that I need to watch and pray and examine my life and God will lead me where He wants me to go. Right now though, a little part of me can't help wishing for God to reach down and shake me by the shoulders and say, "Listen kiddo. Here's what you're supposed to do, OK?" But if the answers were easy, they would not require faith, woud they?
[/quote]

You should read the homily I preached this past weekend. It is in the Open Mic section under "So Far The Transition Has Been Smooth." I don't normally self-promote myself because I don't like to and think it is not necessary, but I did speak all about that last part, you speak about, in some detail.

Let me ask you this. What is it that keeps drawing you to the idea that your creating this vocation? Obviously, it would not keep persisting unless there was something there, so was it exactly that makes you think that it may be you wanting the vocation rather than God?

[jezic]

if it was your creation i think it would have went away by now. Humans change their minds quite quickly.

Something that is from God is more stable and it is lasting.

You sound like you are in the right spot and you might want to think about talking to orders/specific communities.

[SeekingHisPlan]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='958410' date='Apr 23 2006, 09:14 PM']
You should read the homily I preached this past weekend. It is in the Open Mic section under "So Far The Transition Has Been Smooth." I don't normally self-promote myself because I don't like to and think it is not necessary, but I did speak all about that last part, you speak about, in some detail.

Let me ask you this. What is it that keeps drawing you to the idea that your creating this vocation? Obviously, it would not keep persisting unless there was something there, so was it exactly that makes you think that it may be you wanting the vocation rather than God?
[/quote]



I will take a look at that homily. Thank you.

As to your question, I think that what's been making me wonder is the fact that I have had some issues wherein I have been made to feel like I am showing off in Church. For example, I kneel for Communion, and there was a brouhaha a while ago about my kneeling drawing attention. It came to the point where my priest questioned me about my motive for kneeling. I think everything has been ironed out there, but the whole thing has really made me start questioning my own motives for certain spiritual practices/ideals/etc. in my life.

[quote name='jezic' post='958511' date='Apr 23 2006, 10:20 PM']
if it was your creation i think it would have went away by now. Humans change their minds quite quickly.

Something that is from God is more stable and it is lasting.

You sound like you are in the right spot and you might want to think about talking to orders/specific communities.
[/quote]


I've started to do that a little bit. Actually, I REALLY need to write back to Sister M. Beata, FSGM this week. I feel like I need to look more closely at that community.

[jezic]

then it is probably something that you should go for.

It is a starting point and from there you will know more about the next step to take.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='958570' date='Apr 23 2006, 10:50 PM']
I will take a look at that homily. Thank you.

As to your question, I think that what's been making me wonder is the fact that I have had some issues wherein I have been made to feel like I am showing off in Church. For example, I kneel for Communion, and there was a brouhaha a while ago about my kneeling drawing attention. It came to the point where my priest questioned me about my motive for kneeling. I think everything has been ironed out there, but the whole thing has really made me start questioning my own motives for certain spiritual practices/ideals/etc. [/quote]

The question then, is are you doing it to "show off" or are you doing it because you feel that is the right thing to do. Same thing used to happen to me. In fact, once I was praying the rosary with a couple of other seminarians, when the deacon, who happened to be leading it, told me to go faster. I tried, but it was difficult. I was not trying to show off, rather, I figured I was praying to the Queen of Heaven, and I don't know about you, but when addressing a queen, I would be much more deliberate and respectful with my words and how I say them, then if I were talking to a buddy of mine. Perhaps, you are experiencing something similar?

[the lords sheep]

First, let me say that I know EXACTLY how you feel. I’ve been discerning for a long time, and I’ve had many periods of uncertainty on many different levels.
At some point when I was incredibly anxious, a very wise friend quoted Jeremiah 1:5 to me “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.”
He then reminded me that God created me for a specific purpose. He has a plan for me. He has given me certain gifts and put certain people in my life to help me fulfill his plan for me. And God wants me to be happy. He desires nothing more than for me to become the fullest person I can be. And for me to do that, to be truly happy, I have to follow His will and do exactly what it is that I was created for. So, in the depths of my heart, if I am listening prayerfully, I will find His plan, and it will become my desire. Because it is only in desiring to completely follow His will that I may learn to live in fullest communion with Him.
So, the shortened (and always frustrating) answer to your question is this: How do you know if that is what God is truly calling you to? You just will.
Keep Praying. Be Patient. And never stop desire to fall more deeply in love with the Beloved.

Peace in Christ,
Lauren

[shortnun]

[quote name='SeekingHisPlan' post='958570' date='Apr 23 2006, 09:50 PM']
As to your question, I think that what's been making me wonder is the fact that I have had some issues wherein I have been made to feel like I am showing off in Church. For example, I kneel for Communion, and there was a brouhaha a while ago about my kneeling drawing attention. It came to the point where my priest questioned me about my motive for kneeling. I think everything has been ironed out there, but the whole thing has really made me start questioning my own motives for certain spiritual practices/ideals/etc. in my life.
I've started to do that a little bit. Actually, I REALLY need to write back to Sister M. Beata, FSGM this week. I feel like I need to look more closely at that community.
[/quote]
Not to dig up buried matters, but perhaps a helpful way of questioning your motives for "certain spiritual practices/ideasls/etc" would be to bring up such issues in spiritual direction. IMHO, the way we express ourselves, particularly in liturgy, is a conscious (and sometimes unconscious) way of expressing the particular charism of our faith. That sounds a little muddled. But the way we pray (speak, sing, move our bodies, etc) is directly related to [u]what[/u]/ [u]who[/u] we believe in.

I think I recall you making a comment about the Martyrs somewhere else here before. They're a wonderful and joyful community. Sr. Beata will hold you in her prayers and help you on your journey. That much is certain!

Prayers, and have a great week.