Happy Fun Gun Poll and Thread

[Socrates]

[quote name='Snarf' post='954426' date='Apr 19 2006, 06:14 PM']
Yes, but it doesn't say anywhere that the government isn't allowed to know who keeps and bears arms. I find the case against registration to be non-existent.
[/quote]
What else should the government be knowing about its citizens?
If citizens do have a right to bear arms, why should the government [b]need[/b] to know exactly who owns what?

Sounds a bit Big Brother-ish.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' post='954395' date='Apr 19 2006, 06:43 PM']

The problem with gun control laws is that they are an example of the government violating American citizens's Constitutional rights.
[/quote]

Well, the problem I see with gun control laws is that it ends up penalizing the law-abiding people! The criminals don't give a hoot about obeying the gun laws...

[quote name='indescribable' post='954356' date='Apr 19 2006, 05:58 PM']


i personally as a Catholic think that i shouldn't use that unnecessary force against other people or things... but that being said, i don't have my own family so i don't know what it would be like to defend them.

but i don't understand how its sport to kill things. unless you're hungry. otherwise enjoy the hunting grounds of mothers-- the supermarket.
[/quote]

So what? A lot of people just go to a range to target shoot......

Besides, read the story of St. Gabriel Possenti:

[url="http://www.possentisociety.com/stagnaro.asp"]http://www.possentisociety.com/stagnaro.asp[/url]

[Snarf]

Socrates, I already stated why gun registration can potentially become invaluable. As I understand it, a great deal of forensics rely not only on matching a 9mm bullet to someone who owns a 9mm gun, but analyzing the characteristic effects of an individual gun upon bullets to single out the exact firearm that was used in a crime. I don't see why, in the digital age, these signatures can't be provided to the government as new guns are manufactured, not only to solve crimes but to give criminals something to think about before they go and shoot someone. Yes, there is validity to the remark that only law-abiding citizens would line up to register their guns, but it's a very near-sighted remark. In the short term while there are hundreds of thousands of weapons circulating illegally, I don't see it being much help. But in the long term, as unregistered guns become confiscated or legally recirculated, it could make the war on crime quite easier, efficacious, and just. You can pull up the whole "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security" bit, but I don't think it will stick when nobody's saying that you CAN'T own a gun, and HUMAN LIVES may be preserved. Calling things "Big Brother-ish" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to authority (one who would almost certainly disagree with you) as well as a call to paranoia.

[indescribable]

St. Possenti didn't shoot an animal for fun.

i think the exhileration one gets from killing an animal is a very old, barbaric feeling we have and for the most part, our species is beyond that primitive need to supply ourselves with food. the intent to hurt someone, something, just seems a little sketchy. i know everyone that goes to a shooting range doesn't plan on using the gun against an animal or human, but they're going there to learn aren't they?

i understand self defense, but one doesn't need a semi automatic weapon to ward off someone. does that make sense?

[ardillacid]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,[b] the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed[/b]."



I don't even know how one could argue against that.

[Aloysius]

indescribable, unless you're a vegitarian you still require the killing of animals for your food. it is far better that there be personal work involved in the killing of your food, that there be a bit of sport and exhileration involved.

of course if you're not eating the animal it's kind of like contraceptive sex... enjoying the pleasure of the hunt and kill wihtout the purpose (eating).

[indescribable]

i am not a vegetarian, but i think i would campaign for humane treatment of animals (God made them too, even if they aren't free-thinking). I'm saying that UNLESS you're killing to put food on the table, its barbaric.

good reference to protected intercourse tho

[Socrates]

[quote name='Snarf' post='954671' date='Apr 19 2006, 09:37 PM']
Socrates, I already stated why gun registration can potentially become invaluable. As I understand it, a great deal of forensics rely not only on matching a 9mm bullet to someone who owns a 9mm gun, but analyzing the characteristic effects of an individual gun upon bullets to single out the exact firearm that was used in a crime. I don't see why, in the digital age, these signatures can't be provided to the government as new guns are manufactured, not only to solve crimes but to give criminals something to think about before they go and shoot someone. Yes, there is validity to the remark that only law-abiding citizens would line up to register their guns, but it's a very near-sighted remark. In the short term while there are hundreds of thousands of weapons circulating illegally, I don't see it being much help. But in the long term, as unregistered guns become confiscated or legally recirculated, it could make the war on crime quite easier, efficacious, and just. You can pull up the whole "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security" bit, but I don't think it will stick when nobody's saying that you CAN'T own a gun, and HUMAN LIVES may be preserved. Calling things "Big Brother-ish" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to authority (one who would almost certainly disagree with you) as well as a call to paranoia.
[/quote]
Call me paranoid, but I think in general the Federal government has grown much too big and much too intrusive in the lives of citizens. This is an issue which goes far beyond guns. If you read the original Bill of Rights in the Constitution (including the Second Amendment), you'll notice that much of these have the goal of limiting the power of the federal government. Since then, the government has grown far beyond its original constitutional limitations. And yes, this has occured under Democrats and Republicans alike.

The founding fathers would of been aghast at the current size and scope of our current federal government.

No, I don't think that the Democrats are plotting to immediately snatch up everyone's hunting rifles, but anything to put a check on the unneccessary growth of federal government is good thing in my opinion.

[Socrates]

[quote name='indescribable' post='954870' date='Apr 20 2006, 07:05 AM']
St. Possenti didn't shoot an animal for fun.

i think the exhileration one gets from killing an animal is a very old, barbaric feeling we have and for the most part, our species is beyond that primitive need to supply ourselves with food. the intent to hurt someone, something, just seems a little sketchy. i know everyone that goes to a shooting range doesn't plan on using the gun against an animal or human, but they're going there to learn aren't they?

i understand self defense, but one doesn't need a semi automatic weapon to ward off someone. does that make sense?
[/quote]
I myself am not a hunter, but have nothing against sport hunting on principle, and would not object to going on a hunting trip. The idea that hunting is just done for some kind of sadistic pleasure of killing is a common misconception, I think. Much of pleasure of hunting is in the thrill of the chase, the enjoyment of the outdoors, and the challenge of finding and succesfully bringing down the prey.
With modern weapons, the animal dies fairly quickly and painlessly. Causing an animal pain is not the main goal or pleasure of hunting for most people.

I one wanted to torture and kill an animal for cruel and sadistic pleasure, it would seem easier to get a dog and beat it to death.

Since you are not a vegetarian, your arguments seem somewhat baseless, as animals were killed to provide the meat you buy at the supermarket. (And it would seem that to those worried about such things, modern "factory farming" would raise far more ethical concerns than hunting wild animals.)

Where I live (in the heart of hunting country), deer are a nuisance, eating everybody's gardens, and frequently colliding with vehicles. With most natural predators (wolves, cougars) long ago exterminated, hunting is necessary to manage the deer population.
People forget that in nature animals are hunted by other animals all the time. A deer dies quicker and less painfully from a hunter's bullet than by being mauled to death by a cougar.
As long as hunting is done lawfully and responsibly (so that animals are not hunted to extinction and such), there is really nothing wrong with it.

[indescribable]

in my second post i said i would lobby for better conditions for all of God's creatures, especially those that i eat daily.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='indescribable' post='954870' date='Apr 20 2006, 08:05 AM']
i understand self defense, but one doesn't need a semi automatic weapon to ward off someone. does that make sense?
[/quote]

What is your choice for self defense? Fists? Baseball bat or hockey stick in hall closet?

[indescribable]

a single shot firegun.

but i think a hockey stick would be quite funny. maybe the late pope from your picture would agree

[Resurrexi]

Thermo nuclear devices.

[God the Father]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='955048' date='Apr 20 2006, 12:24 PM']
of course if you're not eating the animal it's kind of like contraceptive sex... enjoying the pleasure of the hunt and kill wihtout the purpose (eating).
[/quote]

One could argue the purpose(of hunting) is sport and exhiliration? Probably not though, I'm not too educated on the matter.

By the way, you can't go wrong with guns, any more than you can go wrong with balled fist.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='God the Father' post='957441' date='Apr 22 2006, 08:55 PM']
One could argue the purpose(of hunting) is sport and exhiliration?
[/quote]

One could argue that quite easily, for a certain definition of 'sport'. I've no problem with hunting....nor canned hunting...although, that's for a new thread.