Children in Mass

[prose]

[quote]QUOTE(MichaelFilo @ Apr 17 2006, 06:36 PM)
One woman was explaining to her child what was going on in the Mass, trying to raise him in Truth, instead of letting the little fluffy air extraction run around and be loud. Oh, and the family size count is also much closer to that of the "Go forth and multiply" numbering at the TLM. That is what I call some signs of the more faithful bunch.[/quote]

I find that I am frustrated as a mother of a two year old and a 6 month old about this issue. I try to help them understand Mass, but at this age, they are not welsome in the Children's liturgy, and frankly, a two year old doesn't understand particularily what is going on. I think the most she grasps is when the priest hold up the Eucharist, she says "There's Jesus, mom"

Children can not be magically quiet and sit still for an hour or more. No matter how much we want them to. People that call them names and hold disdain for parents are half of the problem. Many parents I know won't even go to Mass because of the fear that they are offending people like this when their children cry.

The Bible does not say "go forth and multiply - but make sure they are quiet and calm all the time"

For the record, We have no cryroom, so I let my children cry in pews or play in pew by us. I do my best to keep them quiet, but it isn't always possible, and I shouldn't be judged if my two year old is incapable of sitting silent and still for an hour.

[/end rant]

[Noel's angel]

As long as the kids aren't running around the sanctuary screaming their heads off, parents shouldn't be made to feel bad about bringing their children to Mass. There are people I know whose kids just can't sit still at Mass so they don't bring them to avoid disruption (I'm talking 2 year olds here) but if it's the odd noise and as long as they aren't disturbing the whole congregation, I have no problem. I do think when a child is wailing and screaming the parents should take it outside, but other than that, kids should stay!!

I actually know a priest who told a woman after Mass one day not to bring her child back because it giggled....

It's all about common sense. If your child is kicking and screaming and clambering over people-take them outside. Otherwise, keep them coming!

[Sojourner]

I think it's good to have children in Mass ... they, too, are part of the family. And, in a very real sense, they are "weaker brothers."

[stbernardLT]

0-5 is a wide range. I can get my 3 yr. old to say some prayers and even stand, sit ,and kneel. But my 2 and 1 yr old that is a different story. I usually bring some coloring books for them. Each child is different, butI think it is common sense to keep the volume down and keep the activity low key.

Cry rooms in my area or more like play rooms and even the moms tend not to even care about the mass.

I know a priest who will call parents out during his homily if their baby is screaming. Very uncomfortable situation for the whole church.

[toledo_jesus]

I think that if your child is too young to sit quietly, you should leave one parent home with the baby and trade off Mass times. Daddy goes to 8:30, while Mommy watches Baby. Then Mommy goes to 11:00 while Daddy prays Baby doesn't soil himself.

[homeschoolmom]

People should be a little tolerant of some disruption. Every movement does not warrent a glare from the neighbors. However, parents need to take them out when they are loud. But to glare at the parent WHILE s/he is taken the child out is rediculous...

[jasJis]

My mom refused to take us to Church if we could not behave. She also was a teacher. You can't expect all 3 year olds to stay quiet, but it isn't fair to have children that are constantly disruptive in the Church. Trade off with the hubby or arrange a baby sitter if they're too young to behave during most of the service.

All kids are going to have bad moments in Church. Even adults suffer from that. But moments of bad behavior are different than playing Barbies or trucks or pew-aerobics the entire Mass.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Apr 18 2006, 10:06 AM']It's all about common sense.  If your child is kicking and screaming and clambering over people-take them outside.  Otherwise, keep them coming![right][snapback]952106[/snapback][/right][/quote] i agree
[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Apr 18 2006, 11:00 AM']People should be a little tolerant of some disruption. Every movement does not warrent a glare from the neighbors. However, parents need to take them out when they are loud. But to glare at the parent WHILE s/he is taken the child out is rediculous...[right][snapback]952239[/snapback][/right][/quote]i usually like seeing kids at Mass, unless i have a headache. but then, that's my problem.

[RascalJones]

One parish we attend occasionally, used to have a priest that had no tolerance for children whatsoever. If one would cry, or talk during Mass, he stopped and waited for silence to continue.

And you don't even want to think about having a cell phone go off when he was saying Mass. ooooooh

I have 5 year old and a 2 1/2 year old. There's no way the 2 1/2 year old will be good in church. Usually, we drop him off in the nursery and the 5 year old goes to Children's liturgy.....but only if she sees one of her friends. But, if she sits with us, she's usually pretty well behaved. She always has been. I know people that don't take their kids to Mass, and so they don't go either. They say they're waiting for the kids to be older before they go. The only problem with that is, when they "get older", they won't have the patience to sit thru Mass and will be worse than a couple years of fighting. Getting them in the habit is the best thing. Priests that encourage parents to bring their children and not worry about a LITTLE noise would help greatly. There was actually once I was in Mass and afterwards, the priest made the comment that he heard some children during Mass and to not be ashamed, that their voices needed to be heard by God as well. Good call, father.

[prose]

I think it is a shame that Catholics feel bad about having young children, and are not welcomed in Mass.

I think children NEED to go to Mass from day one, they get graces too from Mass, and who are we to tell parents that their babies don't deserve these graces because we don't like a little noise? That is pretty unjust.

Children are a sign of growth and renewal. Maybe some people need to work on being more accepting. I know that I do the best I can to keep my children well behaved, but occasionally we have a bad Sunday. I will not stop my children from attending Mass because of that.

[jasJis]

[quote name='prose' date='Apr 18 2006, 12:26 PM']I think it is a shame that Catholics feel bad about having young children, and are not welcomed in Mass.

I think children NEED to go to Mass from day one, they get graces too from Mass, and who are we to tell parents that their babies don't deserve these graces because we don't like a little noise?  That is pretty unjust.

Children are a sign of growth and renewal.  Maybe some people need to  work on being more accepting.  I know that I do the best I can to keep my children well behaved, but occasionally we have a bad Sunday.  I will not stop my children from attending Mass because of that.
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[/quote]Well I guess you don't know much about the graces that come from Mass. Little kids are innocent and aren't in as much need of the graces as sinful adults. It's kinda selfish of people insisting their kids have to go and others need to tolerate 'a little noise'. What's a little noise? Kids aren't adults and are oblivious to the Mass. Grace is not 'magic' that just happens. Adults need to participate with Grace. The distinctions are how disruptive is(are) your kid(s), how much grace in need of grace are they compared to older kids/teens/adults, and who NEEDS the grace of mass more.

[Colleen]

[quote name='prose' date='Apr 18 2006, 02:26 PM']I think it is a shame that Catholics feel bad about having young children, and are not welcomed in Mass.

I think children NEED to go to Mass from day one, they get graces too from Mass, and who are we to tell parents that their babies don't deserve these graces because we don't like a little noise?  That is pretty unjust.

Children are a sign of growth and renewal.  Maybe some people need to  work on being more accepting.  I know that I do the best I can to keep my children well behaved, but occasionally we have a bad Sunday.  I will not stop my children from attending Mass because of that.
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[/quote]
Good for you. I really do think that people need to be more tolerant of little kids. They should not be excluded from Mass.

Some other thoughts (from a girl with five siblings under the age of 13):
- Crying rooms seem to create more problems than they were meant to avoid.
- I think some problems with kids has more to do with their parents than anything. The parents don't discipline them at all or they simply don't make them aware of what is going on at Mass. It just seems like those kids who are given food, non-religious books, and toys to distract them at Mass end up not getting anything out of the Mass at all. Mass shouldn't be seen as "playtime" to little kids.

[quote]Well I guess you don't know much about the graces that come from Mass. Little kids are innocent and aren't in as much need of the graces as sinful adults. It's kinda selfish of people insisting their kids have to go and others need to tolerate 'a little noise'. What's a little noise? Kids aren't adults and are oblivious to the Mass. Grace is not 'magic' that just happens. Adults need to participate with Grace. The distinctions are how disruptive is(are) your kid(s), how much grace in need of grace are they compared to older kids/teens/adults, and who NEEDS the grace of mass more.[/quote]
My little siblings aren't oblivious of the Mass. They really do get a lot out of the experience. Maybe not in the same way or to the same extent as adults, but they do. And honestly, they're not all that innocent, either. (Not my little brothers sometimes, anyway. : I love them, but they have lots to learn!) They need plenty of graces, too, and they shouldn't be deprived of that.

And I'm not condoning lots of noise. I'm just saying that people should be more welcoming to little kids. Children are signs of a healthy parish. And ya know, the family is constantly under attack in our secular world, so one would hope that they would be appreciated and welcomed at Mass.

[MichaelFilo]

Children are humans, and when the Apostles wanted to keep them away from Jesus, Jesus cmae back with a strong statement

[quote] 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.  17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." -Luke 18:16-17[/quote]

Children belong right there with their parents, and they oguht to hear the mass, and learn it's beauty at a young age. What does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean letting them eat, or bringing a coloring book, or even allow any distraction. They are there for the Lord, and they ought to be like everyone else, for they too were regenerated in the same Baptism. Like I said, I appreciated most especially the woman who taught her child what was going on, Sunday after Sunday, because she was quiet about it (she obviously spoke, but it was in a low tone and was, to say the least, more moving than hindering). That is the place of a child, to be instructed in Faith like everyone else. Cry rooms are a disgusting protestant invention. Reserving the back pews for parents with newlyborns is reasonable though, as often times they have to leave and return.

God bless,
Mikey

[Birgitta Noel]

Cry rooms are great, but they should be used for their original purpose. They are intended to be used so that when a baby (young'n) starts crying and can't be stopped in a reasonable amount of time, or is screaming at the top of her lungs, the parent can go into the cry room to quiet and calm the child, but still participate in the mass. The cry room is not meant to be a place where one starts out and stays the whole mass.

And yes, children should definitely be at mass. Just because we can hear them at times doesn't mean that they're too loud, it just means we know they are there. When you hear a baby, smile at the parent(s), don't glare!

Really the problem is most parents who don't know how to teach their children to behave in public and encourage bad behavior at mass! (Not anyone here!)

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 18 2006, 01:58 PM']The distinctions are how disruptive is(are) your kid(s), how much grace in need of grace are they compared to older kids/teens/adults, and who NEEDS the grace of mass more.
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[/quote]
I'm going to suggest that a parent with small children is in great need of a lot of grace....

[quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Apr 18 2006, 03:09 PM']Cry rooms are great, but they should be used for their original purpose. 
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[/quote]

Yeah, they're not mini-nurseries....