Legionaries Of Christ

[vianney]

Please read and explore this site:
[url="http://www.legionaryfacts.org"]http://www.legionaryfacts.org[/url]



I have read over this site and found nothing to answer my question directly about the over controlling aspects of the order. I already researched that site before you posted that info to.

And to be honest I am not interested in reading what Fr. Marical Maciel has to say about the order considering he cant even come into the United States right now due to his fear of being put in jail for his molestation charges against him.

And to further my reservations for the order they were kicked out of a diocese in California because the Bishop asked them to help the poor at a shelter and they refused because they dont "work with that type of ministry"

They have been known to only work with rich and influencial ppl and sometimes when asked to do ministry work with the poor they refuse. Where is the obedience in that?

[friarMatt]

i have heard poxitive and negitive things about them...all the positives and the negitives mentioned here....I have been very impressed by the LC's I have met before good, holy, prayerful priests. they have a very high vocation numbers, BUT persevrance rate is very far from 100%

[dUSt]

[quote name='vianney' date='Apr 16 2004, 01:51 PM'] they were forced to have their letters opened and read and all letters sent out read they didnt have a choice.

Dust; You can obtain a spirit of obedience while at the same time having individual freedom to grow as a healthy humanbeing. It is UNHEALTHY to do what they do. They are not able to eat ANY food with silverwear all men must use forks to cut grapes and bannanas and if they refuse they are punished. Trust me it isnt hersay my friends would lie about their experiences and I was once recruited by LoC and they are deceptive. They dont tell you how controlling the enviro will be until you actually get there. They put on a good face to get you in there and once they do it is hell.

I have no problem with obedience and discipline but I also know there is a line that needs to be drawn and the LoC cross it. You may have your own opinion about it or what not but I also know that my Bishop wouldnt allow them to eneter our diocese. They were kicked out so to speak and I have heard the same for a number of other dioceses. I dont know what else you want me to tell you. I think that at the core it is a good order but their formation methods are whacked out. I think that I of all ppl should be able to comment on this considering I am in formation in seminary and know what needs to be done to form a man. My rector also agrees who has had years and years and years of experience in the formation of men. Im not blowing smoke around to piss ppl off or start a fight. If you disagree with me that is fine but dont tell me that what I am saying is unfounded because I cant give you documents.


Even Spiritual Arsonist in a private PM convo agreed with me as to why he wont post publically I dont know.

I know some who have gone and liked it and some who have gone that are now getting pyschological help because they are so messed up. Dont tell me what I am saying is unfounded their formation methods are UNHEALTHY. [/quote]
I'm assuming you feel that Marine basic training in the military is unhealthy as well?

[dUSt]

[quote name='vianney' date='Apr 16 2004, 01:58 PM'] And to be honest I am not interested in reading what Fr. Marical Maciel has to say about the order considering he cant even come into the United States right now due to his fear of being put in jail for his molestation charges against him. [/quote]
Do you have a source for this information?

[morostheos]

To help clear up the question of the rigidity and discipline of the seminary, I decided it might help if I quote the following in full text:

[quote]{Interviewer}49. Now that you mention being radical, some people think the Legionaries are too demanding, too rigid in their discipline, too serious in their formation. What do you think about that?

{Fr. Maciel}
To form a person, and especially a priest, you have to be very precise, like making a fine watch. Nothing can be missing; all the pieces have to fit together and they must be put together properly for the mechanism to work. The formation of Legionaries is somewhat like that. If we want to form priests to be models of Christian life for the faithful, we need to ensure all the elements that go into the integral formation that a man consecrating his life in the Catholic priesthood should have: his human, intellectual, spiritual, and apostolic formation.

So it all depends on how you understand the terms "demanding," "rigid," and "discipline." Earlier I spoke of being demanding, but not of being rigid. I believe Christ was demanding with his own, but never rigid. When we say someone is rigid, it conjures up the impression that he is inflexible, unable to adjust to reality. Christ was realistic. He knew perfectly what was inside people, inside each person. That is why, even though he presented the gospel ideal with all its demands, he always understood people's failings, falls, and weaknesses. The most obvious case is St. Peter. Christ never lowered the ideal for Peter, not even after he denied him. Remember the wonderful passage where the two of them are on the shore of Lake Tibarias and Christ asks about his love: "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these others do?" (John 21:15). But when Christ demands, he is full of motivation, affection, tenderness, sincere interest in the other person's good. It's in this positive vein that you can say the Legion is demanding with its members, because it presents them the gospel ideal in all its beauty. But the Legion, like Christ, understands the weakness of man, wounded by sin and full of shadows amid the brilliant light of grace. But I would neither apply nor accept the adjective "rigid," which smacks of intolerance, attempting to apply preconceived patterns without taking into account a person's actual situation.

As regards discipline, we would also need to clarify what kind of discipline we mean and how we understand the word. Some social groupings impose discipline externally, but that is not the discipline we are looking for. We foster a discipline motivated by love, with deep supernatural meaning, that will also be a means for apostolic effectiveness and formative ascesis. If you want to pray; of follow Christ who is poor, chaste, and obedient; or acquire a solid human and intellectual formation, you need to subject yourself to discipline. But this discipline is never a straitjacket. No one forces it on you. You yourself, given the specific purposes you seek, see the need to choose the appropriate way to reach the same. That is why we speak of motivated discipline and personal conviction. If discipline is merely external, it will only work as long as the structures that impose it remain in place, but once they dispappear discipline will also. You build a man from within, from his will, freedom, and reason. This is where he needs to disciplin himself voluntarily. If this is your understanding of discipline, then I would say the Legion esteems it highly, as long as it is guided by faith, love, freedom, and reason, as I just said.

Discipline also has pedagogical and spiritual value. As I mentioned, it has value relative to the goal you seek. You need discipline, for example, to study. If you want to learn a given branch of science systematically, you necessarily have to follow a measure of mental discipline and method. If you want to be effective in military undertakings, you need personal discipline. In this sense, discipline is a means to a goal. It is not the goal in itself. A student and a soldier both need discipline, not to practice it for its own sake but to achieve their goals more easily.

A Christian, too, needs discipline to pray and be virtuous. It is a necessary means. Besides, you see people today put themselves through the toughest discipline to stay healthy, for example, or simply to stay in good shape. No one criticizes their enormous sacrifices for these purposes that are good in themselves, so why should people criticize the discipline it takes to live the gospel? Christ was very realistic in this regard when he told the disciples to strive to enter by the narrow gate, since the gate that leads to perdition is wide (Matt 7:13-14). St. Paul himself employs the image of an athlete training to win his race and win a perishable crown. He concludes that he himself, seeking an everlasting crown, must strive that much harder than those who compete for a perishable prize (1 Cor 9:24-27).

A man who is preparing for priesthood, or is already a priest or religious, likewise has to maintain a personal discipline in line with his vocation. For example, if you want to live in priestly celibacy or take the vow of chastity you need the discipline in your lifestyle that will enable you to be faithful to that commitment. Not to know this would mean operating outside of a healthy concept of man - not just on the Christian but even on the merely human level.

I do not believe in discipline for discipline's sake, but I do believe that man, wounded by original sin, has tendencies that can lead him to evil. The Council of Trent, borrowing an expression from St. Paul, calls this concupiscence. In Romans 7, St. Paul vividly describes the inner battle waged in the theater of the human heart: "I cannot understand my own behavior. I fail to carry out the things I want to do, and I find myself doing the very things I hate...with the result that instead of doing the good things I want to do, I carry out the sinful things I do not want. In my inmost self I dearly love God's Law, but I can see that my body follows a different law that battles against the law which my reason dictates. This is what makes me a prisoner of that law of sin which lives inside my body. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescure me from this body doomed to death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Rom 7:15, 19, 22-24).

We all have to wage this battle against our passions. This is undeniable. Discipline, motivated by love for God, helps us to come out on top in this battle. All the elements of discipline that we use are there for a higher goal and motivated by love. This produces free and mature men, not men with complexes, stunted in their faculties or unfulfilled. Just take some time to observe the seminarians and priests who live the classical elements of Church discipline (the only kind that we demand), and see if they give you the impression of not living life fully. Quite the opposite: This discipline, living in the balance given by faith and the harmoney of the nobler faculties, helps them live what St. Augustine called [i]libertas maior [/i]. They radiate freedom, composure, and self-mastery. They radiate freedom - be they Legionaries of Christ, regular Christians, or members of any other religious congregation or new community. When you practice discipline out of love and in an atmosphere of personal and community balance, it does not enslave, but liberates.[/quote]

[Spiritual_Arsonist]

I just have to say this. The Legion is a good order, but it is not for everyone.

They discorage praying the Divine Office before the Diaconate, and suggested to me that if this was a prayer "I needed", I might want to find another order. Soccer is compulsory, everyone is made to be sports freaks. You are not even allowed to dance. This seems weird to me. I spent extensive time with the group, so I know how they operate.

Different Charisms I suppose.

[Spiritual_Arsonist]

I must agree with Vianney. Some limits are being crossed. I felt pressured to join the order and I didn't like it. Both weeks I went there I could not wait till I got home.

[Crusader_4]

I have some yet very limited experience with them. I joined one of their message boards or the like at one of their sites. I had to provide my phone number etc ( which i normally dont have a problem with). However, soon i was recieving phone calls from Minneapolis about my vocation and stuff ( i live in Canada). Further to that, my family is all protestant and the like so lets just say it didnt fly as i was trying to keep my discernment a little more secret. I think like any order there r cons and pros and individuals and the Church must weigh them as a whole.

[Shawn_H]

" I'm assuming you feel that Marine basic training in the military is unhealthy as well?"

I dont think they wiretap your phone in the Marines.

I dont know a thing about this group or Regnum Christi, but I now enough about Opus Dei to have concerns.

I just think there is a difference between healthy discipline and totalitarianism.

I'm not accusing any organisation of being totalitarian, but any group that excersises total control over every aspect of a lay persons life should be viewed with some caution.

[Dflanni]

Is it true that they have to make like a vow of shunning those who do not agree with their order or something to that effect I can remember being asked to join and when someone called to ask me questions they told me that they'd fly a guy out to my home in Missouri from Conneticut just to meet me, like ask me more questions and see my home. I felt as I was being stauked and told them no thank you. To me, they seem to look really nice and cool on the outside, like wearing cassocks and everyone looks attractice and all. I just question what they are all really about. I believe they administer to the rich, which causes some questions to come up. And I also wonder why you never seems to see anyone in there that is over weight or not attractive. I mean are there certain requirements for how one looks, where they live, and how much money one's famiy has that determines who can join and who can't. Just some things to bring up