Conversion

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Apr 17 2006, 08:54 PM']The problem is, it's not true.

Fallen away Catholics CAN have problems with the Catholic Church. Wasn't Call to Action one such group. I believe some former priests have left the Catholic Church too... these are intellectual differences with the Church.

It is wrong to even say half the reasons are emotional, I'd say today's biggest reason is apathy.

God bless,
Mikey
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Something I have come to believe from those who I have dialoged with is that it tends to be a sin. Often, they'll say one thing, but after further investigation I find a deep rooted sin... Satan attacks us just as he did Eve... slowly (he has lots of time), and with our own reasoning. We tend to make an expection for a sin, and then when our conscience becomes to loud and the rationalization does not work anymore, we stop frequenting the Mass and sacraments... the flow of grace stops and we fall deeper... Satan divides and conquers... he cuts us off from the source of Grace, and then tricks us into embracing a habitual sin.

A prime example is a woman I know, she was (she says "is") Catholic... she went to Catholic school... and when talking with her, she said "We were always told to question our faith and I think abortion is up to the woman. It wouldn't be something that I would do but I cannot say it's wrong." - Which I was speachless at the time... I couldn't believe what I was hearing... too many people have the pompous belief that "to question" means to pull the answers out of thin air... like she did... she became her own pope... her own reasoning was all she went by instead of actually looking for answers like anyone who knows how to think would do. I still know this woman and she has a few kids with her husband (she's his third wife), and now they are swingers... I've know her for quite some time now. No one likes to be told they are wrong, and with her trying to talk to her about it was all but impossible... and it came down to embracing a sin, I think that these people do care but they try to shut the conscience up by appearing to not be concerned and avoiding what reminds them that they are living in a wrong way.


[b]Detach yourself from people and things until you are stripped of them. For, says Pope Saint Gregory, the devil has nothing of his own in this world, and naked he comes to battle. If you go clothed to fight him, you will soon be pulled to the ground: for he will have something to catch you by.
- St. Josemaria Escriva, The Way #149[/b]

[MichaelFilo]

You win, tgheres more than one reason to get there.. apathy.. bad experience.. sin.. ahh.. Satan, why art thou so good at being bad?

Anywho, I would have ot agree, thats the one that pulls the faithful Catholic stock who wouldn't be shaken by a bad experience.

God bless,
Mikey

[Maria]

It depends so much on the person... personnally I tend to find prots easiest to get somewhere with. People who have had a minimal Catholic upbringing tend to feel that they've heard it all. I don't know... I tend to go further with people who have already been converted to Christ.
Well, at least if we're not talking about children.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Apr 17 2006, 06:54 PM']The problem is, it's not true.

Fallen away Catholics CAN have problems with the Catholic Church. Wasn't Call to Action one such group. I believe some former priests have left the Catholic Church too... these are intellectual differences with the Church.

It is wrong to even say half the reasons are emotional, I'd say today's biggest reason is apathy.

God bless,
Mikey
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Catholics do leave for intellectual reasons. I believe that. But i have never encountered one in my life.

But as i was saying, i have experienced many people who left the church, over a sin deep in their hearts. Most of the time they dont believe God or the Church would forgive them, because they have never experienced forgiveness in their lives. because of this, they make the decision to leave with a broken heart. and let whatever makes them feel nice and warm in their misery dictate their worldview. If that is a liberal progressive agenda with an emphasis on don't judge, they fall into that trap. It is an emotional thought process that descends someone into a trap of sin, where only the truth, that is Christ can set them free in loving mercy.

But perhaps i am wrong, and am just ranting nonsense as i am always accused of doing. But that is just the opinion of worthless me thank you very much!!!
SHALOM

[MichaelFilo]

I like you, because you made an arguement that made sense. You are right, of course, but it does happen. The root of all division is sin. I didn't neccessarily equate the word emotional reasons with sin.. but hey, you did, and I agree with that.

God bless,
Mikey

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Apr 17 2006, 09:08 PM']I like you, because you made an arguement that made sense. You are right, of course, but it does happen. The root of all division is sin. I didn't neccessarily equate the word emotional reasons with sin.. but hey, you did, and I agree with that.

God bless,
Mikey
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Quickly, i will be misinterpreted. I have such a lousy talent for discussion...

I did not mean to say that emotional decisions are sinfull.

I fell madly in love with God, and made the radical decision to give up all sorts of stuff. That was purely emotional, and in fact, one would think i am mad for that decision, i do perhaps.

The sin is the despair. Giving up on MERCY, giving up on FORGIVENESS. giving up HOPE, that there is no hope for oneself, so you might as well continue to sin. GIVING UP is the sin, that decision. Someone is seduced into a decision, although perfectly culpable in that situation. But woe to those who perpetuate despair, who abound unforgiveness. Especially parents and others in authority in the church, who drag those entrusted to them into fire flames.

SHALOM

Edited April 18, 2006 by MC IMaGiNaZUN

[MC Just]

[quote name='Myles' date='Apr 17 2006, 05:24 AM']It depends on the fallen away Catholic. For instance, in my experience some fallen away Catholics who have been seduced by the liberal 'gospel' are an impenetrable wall when it comes to talking to about the faith. The minute you say the word 'Catholic' its as if neon lights saying 'abortion' and 'contraception' start flashing around your head and the conversation effectively ends. You may still be talking but the person sure isn't listening!

Sometimes, indeed much of the time, the unchurched are much easier to dialogue with. They have no knowledge or grasp of Christianity they're not really athiests they've just grown up in a cultural milieu where God was absent so its all new to them. They haven't got many preconceptions and though it may just be tickling the ears of Areopagites sometimes they're at least, generally, willing to give you a hearing.
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imprenetrable wal is correct. I've experienced this. It's pretty tough!