Eucharist vs "Magic"

[lucybeebee]

How do I explain to skeptics how the consecration of bread and wine during the Eucharist differs from a belief in magic?

[Myles Domini]

Magicians use supernatural means to obtain natural results the priest on the other hand is given the power by God to make the natural supernatural.

[phatcatholic]

plus, magicians who do magic as a source of entertainment, like david copperfield, use [i]their own power[/i] to make things happen. yet the source of the transubstantiation is the Holy Spirit.

[LouisvilleFan]

Well, magic is essentialy a deception, or making something appear to have happened to our senses that does not actually happen. Nobody "believes" a magic trick unless they see the results, although we all know it's just a huge, very elaborate trick done by the power of the man or woman's performance.

Consecration of the Eucharist (and all of the sacraments) do work that can be seen only through the eyes of faith, except on the rare occasion of a Eucharistic miracle or physical healing (think about Jesus healing the paralytic). Priests do not have the power in themselves to consecrate anything; God does the work through them because He is faithful to his people.

People are going to have trouble with this doctrine. Jesus lost many followers in John 6 when he instructed them to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Most of us learn to be skeptical of such ridiculous claims, just like some people can't believe in God or that Christ is God incarnate. And I think many Protestants are also skeptical because they know the ramifications of this one element of doctrine -- if it's true, we are all obligated to return to full communion with the Catholic Church (or at least be Orthodox... but regardless, all Christians are obligated to pray and work towards the "perfect unity" for which Christ prayed shortly before his crucifixion).

[LouisvilleFan]

phatcatholic and I must've been typing at the same time... I kinda repeated his point about God being the source of power.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='Apr 16 2006, 04:36 PM']Well, magic is essentialy a deception, or making something appear to have happened to our senses that does not actually happen. Nobody "believes" a magic trick unless they see the results, although we all know it's just a huge, very elaborate trick done by the power of the man or woman's performance.

Consecration of the Eucharist (and all of the sacraments) do work that can be seen only through the eyes of faith, except on the rare occasion of a Eucharistic miracle or physical healing (think about Jesus healing the paralytic). Priests do not have the power in themselves to consecrate anything; God does the work through them because He is faithful to his people.

People are going to have trouble with this doctrine. Jesus lost many followers in John 6 when he instructed them to eat his flesh and drink his blood. Most of us learn to be skeptical of such ridiculous claims, just like some people can't believe in God or that Christ is God incarnate. And I think many Protestants are also skeptical because they know the ramifications of this one element of doctrine -- if it's true, we are all obligated to return to full communion with the Catholic Church (or at least be Orthodox... but regardless, all Christians are obligated to pray and work towards the "perfect unity" for which Christ prayed shortly before his crucifixion).
[right][snapback]949325[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
excellent response!!

[Mercy me]

To paraphrase St. Thomas Aquinas, ultimately it comes down to faith because your senses cannot tell you. Yes, magic is about deception of the senses. I would suppose that the opposing arguement would be that the church could be trying to deceive. But the Gospel is very clear. It is also clear that from the beginning of the church we believed in transubstanciation. So, really the issue is, do you believe that a miracle happens at every mass? So, it is about faith.