justification

[Paphnutius]

[quote]Though your sins be like dung, they are as white as snow[/quote]If you could please supply me with book and verse that would greatly help. In all honesty I search different Bibles for the words "dung", "sin", and "snow" and did not find this verse. Pehaps it was just translations that caused me to find nothing, but citation would be helpful. Regardless, though our sins be like dung, they are as white as snow. That would seem to reflect a real and effective change, not simply a decree or statement.

[quote]One must cooperate with grace generally speaking. [/quote]Generally speaking? Could you please clarify what you mean.

[quote]Sanctification means to me simply increasing in holiness. It's a general disposition. It's not being made perfect inherently.[/quote]Sanctification literally means "being made holy." So yes it is a perfection or change. It has a real and effective change on your soul.

[quote]I haven't ruled out the idea that people who commit grave sins will one day repent, but I do not see it fitting for God to beaver dam someone who happens to be in grave sin if they are generally improving and have faith.[/quote]First, thank you jasjis for your answers with this. Secondly, I would like to point out that there is no offical stance that I am aware of that affirms what you have stated. Also, mortal sin is a very conscious and deliberate turning away from God. One cannot be "generally improving and having faith" if one is sinning mortally. This is by the very nature and definition of mortal sin. When one sins mortally, one is aware of what one is doing, that is rejecting God with hardness of heart. If the person would have eventually repented, that is not for us to know nor decide. God gives us more than enough time to seek and follow Him. He does not pull a fast one on anyone and decide to end our lives in mortal sin knowing we would have repented later.

[jasJis]

The typical Catholic reply, Paph.

Did you read my post? Did you attempt to understand it? Ask those questions while your read my post. Is it Catholicism that turns minds to that bent to find fault in anyone other than a card-carrying Catholic, or is it a general failure of the education system that prevents people from comprehending the written word?

[Paphnutius]

[quote]Did you read my post? Did you attempt to understand it? Ask those questions while your read my post. [/quote]You have lost me here. This is not about finding fault in anyone. I agreed with you in this respect that, "If the person would have eventually repented, that is not for us to know nor decide." I read your post and understood it. I, however, wished to point out the nature of mortal sin. It was not an attack on your position for my reply was addressed to jesussaves. I am sorry if it came across as attacking your statement. I am at a loss as to what you meant with this. What I do know, is that my words were not dripping in sarcasm. [quote][i]or is it a general failure of the education system that prevents people from comprehending the written word[/i]?[/quote]

Edited April 27, 2006 by Paphnutius

[Jnorm888]

Jesus saves,




You have to remember that Rome doesn't see a real dividing line between the words "justification" and "sanctification".



So when you read what they say about "justification" you have to look at it as both being "justification and sanctification"


This is what they mean by saying such things as "an increase of Justification"



That's like us saying "growing in grace" or "increasing in sanctification"





INLOVE Jnorm

[desertwoman]

Whats up my friend!!! Norm!!!!!!!!!

[Jnorm888]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='981145' date='May 14 2006, 05:41 PM']
Whats up my friend!!! Norm!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]





Hello







INCHRIST Jnorm

[thessalonian]

Jesussaves,

Please go to my thread on imputed rigtheousness and purgatory. You tell us that man will not be perfect at the end of life. Yet scriptures tell us he MUST be perfect when he gets to heaven. I would like your opinion on that thread. Thanks.