Flight 93

[Sojourner]

It's been nearly five years since 9-11 (which I find somewhat shocking because it just doesn't seem that long ago, but there it is) and now we're beginning to see people calling for release of the cockpit tapes AND there's a movie coming out. From what I've read, the movie previews alone are causing a furor in many places; a Manhattan theater reportedly pulled the preview after it generated negative feedback from audiences. And during the Moussaoui trial, jurors have been listening to the tapes detailing the final minutes of passengers on Flight 93.

I personally still remember the way the air smelled and the feel of fall in the wind when I first heard about the Twin Towers and the other planes. I don't feel like I need reminding of how awful those events were. But I'm sure others feel differently. How do you feel about the movie being released, and the potential of tapes being released? Is it awful to profit off the deaths of these people?

I've seen some people comparing the movie to "The Passion" ... are there legitimate similarities? Should we subject ourselves to re-living those painful days in order to burn those images and emotions even more indelibly on our consciousnesses?

[Era Might]

I haven't seen the previews, but, idk. I guess it's just a fact of life. Whenever something sensational happens, a movie has to be made about it (eg, Scott Peterson). Should they have made movies (Tora! Tora! Tora!) about Pearl Harbor since there were still people alive who went through it? About Vietnam? WW2?

I don't think I would be disturbed just because they made a movie. Depends on what the message is.

.02

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Apr 13 2006, 01:29 PM']I haven't seen the previews, but, idk. I guess it's just a fact of life. Whenever something sensational happens, a movie has to be made about it (eg, Scott Peterson). Should they have made movies (Tora! Tora! Tora!) about Pearl Harbor since there were still people alive who went through it? About Vietnam? WW2?

I don't think I would be disturbed just because they made a movie. Depends on what the message is.

.02
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You're quite right, and I have to say that my opinion on the matter is based largely on the fact that I lived through this one ... watched the news, wrote the news, comforted a student of mine who's dad was supposed to have been flying one of the AA flights until she found out his schedule had been switched, and went to NYC a few weeks later to volunteer.

I'm not nearly so emotionally connected to WW2 or Vietnam ... so watching "Saving Private Ryan" or "Deer Hunter" is not the same as the prospect of watching "Flight 93." I think such movies are important in the larger historical sense, but I don't know that I'll be seeing Flight 93 just yet. Or maybe ever.

[Desert Walker]

I have a great fear of this movie...

It could reinvigorate the lust for revenge in Americans that so pervaded this country after the actual event. Which means our politicians would have carte blanche to do just about whatever the heck they desire militarily.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Apr 13 2006, 01:44 PM']I have a great fear of this movie...

It could reinvigorate the lust for revenge in Americans that so pervaded this country after the actual event.  Which means our politicians would have carte blanche to do just about whatever the heck they desire militarily.
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I have no doubt that you are right. Fear is a powerful motivator.

[Paladin D]

[i][b]Fear... fear attracts the fearful, the strong, the weak, the innocent, the corrupt. Fear... fear is my ally."[/i] - [/b][i]Darth Maul[/i]

[Iacobus]

I think it risks decending into propoganda. The 9/11 Commission and those in charge of the formal record have never confirmed the passenger take over. A lot of thought suggests that the plane was crashed because in order to "stop" and attack by the passengers, the "pilot" was attempting to pull some nasty moves to make them fall down. He lost control and crashed, the passengers didn't take over or any of the feel good stuff. But on that day, and to some extent today, we feel the need to have heros from that day. We had the heroic firemen, who know are just as disrespected as before (watch a rig try to move through traffic with lights now, 85% to 90% of firefighter deaths are due to traffic accidents en route, the vast majority being people refusing to respect their right of way, if we can't respect them in their transit, do we respect them at all?) the passengers of 93 whatever. We wanted to feel like we had some how "stuck" it to the terrorists. We didn't on that day and we are still failing in the goal. This movie wants to reawaken fears and emotions that that day created, commercialize on the "heroic" actions of a few, etc.

We know that what Sgt York did he did do. We don't know that what this movie asserts is fact occured. We have real heros and we have idealized heros.

[Desert Walker]

Thank you, Iacobus, for opening THAT can of worms. Their is indeed a great deal of dishonest sensationalism about 911.

Personally I'm starting to be extremely intrigued by how convenient the 911 attacks were for the Bush administration...

[Era Might]

The guy who led the passenger takeover (the "Let's roll" guy) was a devout Catholic who actually had premonitions of his death years before. His wife confirmed that.

I think it's a legit story. Who knows, maybe he'll be a Saint someday.

An article about him:

[url="http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/20020927.html"]http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/20020927.html[/url]

I don't think his wife would lie about the takeover. He told her about it when he called home:

[quote]He was a take-charged kind of guy, a 6'2" former football star in high school back in Bloomington, Minnesota, and Deena immediately knew that he was going to try stopping the hijackers. This was confirmed the next time he called from his cell phone. "They're talking about crashing this plane into the ground," said Thomas. "We have to do something. I'm putting a plan together." The last time he phoned Tom said they were waiting until they were over a rural area. "We're going to take back the plane," he said. "We can't wait for the authorities. I don't know what they could do anyway. It's up to us. I think we can do it."

...

Deena says that when she and other relatives listened to the flight's "black box" (the cockpit recorder), she could hear her husband barking directives as they indeed took the plane back. "I know that he motivated those people aboard that flight to do what they did," says Deena. "And I also know that had he not been on the plane, that circumstances would have been very different today."  [/quote]

Edited April 14, 2006 by Era Might

[amandaplus5]

[quote]Personally I'm starting to be extremely intrigued by how convenient the 911 attacks were for the Bush administration...[/quote]

What are you implying? Surely you're not trying to suggest that the Bush administration was behind the attacks.

[Desert Walker]

No. I'm not suggesting that because there is no proof of that.

I'm not suggesting that there was no heroic uprising on that airliner. There's no proof of that.

I am suggesting that there is something VERY suspicious about the relationship between the attack on September 11, 2001, and the invasion of Iraq. I think the threat and fear of terrorism from the Islamic world has been manufactured. This is not to say that Bush himself is doing the manufacturing...

[amandaplus5]

There is a relationship between 9/11 and the invasionof Iraq. That relationship is that terrorists instigated both situations and, in both cases, they needed to be stopped.

[Desert Walker]

The relationship is that terrorists "instigated?" BOTH situations?

I'll give you 911 on that, tentatively. I won't give you that on the invasion of Iraq.

By applying that to Iraq you're saying that terrorists (whoever they are) CAUSED Bush to order an invasion of Iraq. I thought he sent soldiers to Iraq to overthrow a regime that was APPARENTLY dangerous to OUR security.


Have you ever heard of a "false flag attack?" It was back in the days of wooden ships and iron men that this tactic became popular among world leaders. England, lets say for example, would fly the flag of France from one of its warships and bombard a German coastal fort. As far as the German defenders would be concerned, a FRENCH warship was attacking them! They would report this to their commander who would report this to the German government, who would report ths to the people of Germany. And they would all believe the lie that FRANCE was their enemy, rather than England (who is their true enemy).

The worst kind of "false flag" attack is the one ordered by a government against its OWN PEOPLE OR MILITARY. Before you say this hasn't been done, read history...

I think 911 was a false flag attack on the American people orchestrated by the American government in order to establish a FINAL, DECISIVE conflict between Islamic culture and Western culture.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Apr 13 2006, 11:24 AM']I've seen some people comparing the movie to "The Passion" ... are there legitimate similarities? Should we subject ourselves to re-living those painful days in order to burn those images and emotions even more indelibly on our consciousnesses?
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Frankly, I'm not too optimistic about this movie. It's going to have to contain great leaps as far as fictionalizing the events-- do we really want that? If I were a widow, I would NOT want my husband to be made into a fictionalized folk hero. Please don't get me wrong-- what those people did was really brave and a great sacrifice to deliberately crash the airplane. If I were a widow, I couldn't watch such a movie. I couldn't listen to the tapes... I just would want to remember my husband aside from the horror of his death.

As for the Passion... no. Bad comparison. Better to compare it to "Pearl Harbor" or something of that nature.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Apr 14 2006, 08:35 AM']The relationship is that terrorists "instigated?" BOTH situations?

I'll give you 911 on that, tentatively.  I won't give you that on the invasion of Iraq.

By applying that to Iraq you're saying that terrorists (whoever they are) CAUSED Bush to order an invasion of Iraq.  I thought he sent soldiers to Iraq to overthrow a regime that was APPARENTLY dangerous to OUR security.
Have you ever heard of a "false flag attack?"  It was back in the days of wooden ships and iron men that this tactic became popular among world leaders.  England, lets say for example, would fly the flag of France from one of its warships and bombard a German coastal fort.  As far as the German defenders would be concerned, a FRENCH warship was attacking them!  They would report this to their commander who would report this to the German government, who would report ths to the people of Germany.  And they would all believe the lie that FRANCE was their enemy, rather than England (who is their true enemy).

The worst kind of "false flag" attack is the one ordered by a government against its OWN PEOPLE OR MILITARY.  Before you say this hasn't been done, read history...

[b]I think 911 was a false flag attack on the American people orchestrated by the American government[/b] in order to establish a FINAL, DECISIVE conflict between Islamic culture and Western culture.
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you are nuts