Questions for Trads

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

thats also not an option. the man will not answer my letters and emails. they were very respectfull.

[Noel's angel]

Well, I can't judge that. Did he specifically preapre the Liturgy?? Could you talk to your priest about it??

And pray!!!

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:40 AM']Well, I can't judge that.  Did he specifically preapre the Liturgy??  Could you talk to your priest about it??

And pray!!!
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i don't know, but its still his fault. he is the cardinal.

no i could not. it would be ineffective.

its worthless, becuase they view me as a regresseive schismatic. they want nothing to do with me.

[Noel's angel]

That's not a good attitude to have. Don't grumble about things and then refuse to actually do anything to change them. Think of all the things that wouldn't have been acheived if someone hadn't stood up for what is right.

He couldn't really have stopped the Mass and said 'right everyone stop holding hands'. It's not an appropriate time.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:48 AM']That's not a good attitude to have.  Don't grumble about things and then refuse to actually do anything to change them.  Think of all the things that wouldn't have been acheived if someone hadn't stood up for what is right.

He couldn't really have stopped the Mass and said 'right everyone stop holding hands'.  It's not an appropriate time.
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no but. he did not have to wash the feet of women, and he could have announced that it is inipropriate to hold hands durind mass.



but he didn't. becuase he is very liberal, and he may not see anything wrong with that.



the only change i want is the eradication of the Novus Ordo Mass.

[Noel's angel]

I was only trying to help.

There are some bad people in the Church, does that mean we should eradicate the Church?? No. Just because you have had a bad experience with a few memebers of the clergy doesn't mean the Novus Ordo is at fault.

Swords are beautiful things and a lot of care and attention goes in to making them. They can make beautiful decorations and can be used in good ways. But, when a sword is given to a person who doesn't respect what it can do, people can get hurt. And people continue to get hurt until the person learns how to respect the sword. Then we see the true beauty of the sword. It was not the sword that was at fault for hurting others, but the man who used it disrespectfully.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='Apr 15 2006, 09:56 AM']I was only trying to help.

There are some bad people in the Church, does that mean we should eradicate the Church??  No.  Just because you have had a bad experience with a few memebers of the clergy doesn't mean the Novus Ordo is at fault.

Swords are beautiful things and a lot of care and attention goes in to making them.  They can make beautiful decorations and can be used in good ways.  But, when a sword is given to a person who doesn't respect what it can do, people can get hurt.  And people continue to get hurt until the person learns how to respect the sword.  Then we see the true beauty of the sword.  It was not the sword that was at fault for hurting others, but the man who used it disrespectfully.
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im sorry. i did not mean to say Eradicate the church. i meant only the Novus Ordo mass.

[amandaplus5]

I think Noel's Angel (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words into your mouth) was using eradicating the church as an example. Just because people screw things up isn't a good reason to toss something. Look at Church history. Chunks of it are not pretty. However, that's because of the human tendency to screw perfectly good things up. church doctrine was not a t fault.

In the same way, it's not the Novus Ordo mass that is at fault. It's the people who are. And don't even try to say that liturgical abuse only occurs in the Novus Ordo mass.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='amandaplus5' date='Apr 15 2006, 11:58 AM']I think Noel's Angel (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words into your mouth) was using eradicating the church as an example.  Just because people screw things up isn't a good reason to toss something.  Look at Church history.  Chunks of it are not pretty.  However, that's because of the human tendency to screw perfectly good things up.  church doctrine was not a t fault. 

In the same way, it's not the Novus Ordo mass that is at fault.  It's the people who are.  And don't even try to say that liturgical abuse only occurs in the Novus Ordo mass.
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im not. ive seen liturgical abuses at the TLM. but they are far less common. thats not really the point though. the NO mass departs from tradition, and is stripped of its catholic Prayers. it IS the abuse.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 15 2006, 01:03 PM']im not. ive seen liturgical abuses at the TLM. but they are far less common. thats not really the point though. the NO mass departs from tradition, and is stripped of its catholic Prayers. it IS the abuse.
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Sam, you do realize that if the Church was to "abandon" the NO that those priests who already abuse that Mass would abuse the TLM even worse?

Please, I understand you dont like the NO Mass, and I am sure anything we say will not change that. However, please, let the Holy Father take care of this. He will do things in his own time and own way, but he will fix the problems.

Just hold on to this thought: all of the liberal priests, are getting really old now, and are dying off. As bad as it sounds to say that, it's true. And replacing them are the orthodox youth who are on fire for Christ and His Church. And the sooner these young men are ordained Priests, the sooner the orthodoxy revolution can be fully underway.

Do not lose hope. Jesus has not abandoned his Church. It is going through trials, but it will come through strong.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

if the TLM is made the normative mass again, the liberal priests will schism.

[amandaplus5]

How do you know? And what if the conservative priests unwittingly commit liturgical abuse? No matter what, there will always be some kind of liturgical abuse. We should try to correct it when we can, but getting rid of the Novus Ordo won't make anything picture perfect.

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='amandaplus5' date='Apr 15 2006, 04:58 PM']I think Noel's Angel (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to put words into your mouth) was using eradicating the church as an example.  Just because people screw things up isn't a good reason to toss something.  Look at Church history.  Chunks of it are not pretty.  However, that's because of the human tendency to screw perfectly good things up.  church doctrine was not a t fault. 

In the same way, it's not the Novus Ordo mass that is at fault.  It's the people who are.  And don't even try to say that liturgical abuse only occurs in the Novus Ordo mass.
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yup, that's what I was saying

[amandaplus5]

[quote]yup, that's what I was saying[/quote]

Ok, just checking. :

Edited April 15, 2006 by amandaplus5

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 15 2006, 01:21 PM']if the TLM is made the normative mass again, the liberal priests will schism.
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Not necesarily. Only if they refuse submission to the Holy Father in a way that is determined to be schismatic by the Holy See.

I personally would just like wider permission for the TLM, because as I said above, it would be a disaster to have some of the priests celebrating a TLM. It would be butchered.