goldenchild17 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 11 2006, 04:48 PM']the problem w/ the limbo issue is that Divine Revelation gives to us only 2 permanent places after death -- Heaven and Hell. Limbo isn't there.... [right][snapback]943906[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo. If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 11 2006, 07:07 PM']That being said, it is dogmatically defined that Limbo is part of the large realm of hell. [right][snapback]944084[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Could you give the reference for this? I had thought as much, but could not remember where I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufiokicks Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 11 2006, 11:01 PM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo. If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it? [right][snapback]944482[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's not that the idea of Limbo isn't allowed, it just isn't doctrine either. The Church has no official stance on it. Limbo is considered a part of Hell, not Heaven, because it is without God. A big part of the belief though is that there's no "punishment", but it's still eternity without God. In Heaven we are in full communion with Him, but if you follow the theory of Limbo, the common belief is that because these "virtuous pagans" and unbaptized children did not have God, they could never be able to spend eternity with Him. As for the Harrowing of Hell that was referenced earlier, God didn't take everyone, only a select few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I most definately believe in Limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie_M Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 10 2006, 04:46 PM']The idea of Limbo makes sense to me, and I'd tend to believe in it, but it's not something I can say with absolute certainity, as the Church has not made a definitive statement on this issue. So I voted "maybe." [right][snapback]942689[/snapback][/right] [/quote] same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 12:01 AM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo. If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it? [right][snapback]944482[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes. Reputable theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Apr 13 2006, 06:19 AM']Yes. Reputable theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas. [right][snapback]945755[/snapback][/right] [/quote]That still does not prove it exists...its still just an open question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I have thought this through a few times, and I would think that the baptism of desire would apply to infants that never had the opportunity to be baptized. [quote][62] Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. -CCC 1260[/quote] I think that an infant would meet these requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 12 2006, 12:01 AM']If I am not mistaken, a number of reputable theologians have entertained the idea of a limbo. If it isn't allowable, then why would they consider it? [right][snapback]944482[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i don't care what "reputable theologians have entertained"... I am only concerned with the official dogmatic and doctrinal teaching of the Church, which not one person who believes in Limbo has given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 15 2006, 04:35 AM']i don't care what "reputable theologians have entertained"... I am only concerned with the official dogmatic and doctrinal teaching of the Church, which not one person who believes in Limbo has given [right][snapback]947542[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Because I'm not sure it has been officially defined. However, as you seem to ignore, this does not negate the fact that it is still a possible reality. The Church has not said Limbo does NOT exist, and therefore leaves it up to the imagination that it can exist. Therefore I CHOOSE to believe in it, along with many other great minds of Catholicism that you don't seem to care about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 9 2006, 04:31 PM']Limbo is more traditional : [right][snapback]941129[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Only for an "Old Catholic" who would think SSPX heretical and liberal. Baltimore Catechism denies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 [quote name='prose' date='Apr 15 2006, 07:21 AM']I have thought this through a few times, and I would think that the baptism of desire would apply to infants that never had the opportunity to be baptized. I think that an infant would meet these requirements. [right][snapback]947493[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Indeed! I must say this was a question that initially kept me from becoming Christian, as allot of protestants believe the babies can't be saved(or don't have souls as I've heard some say) ...and to someone like me that appeared mighty unjust. The Catholic Church was probably the only one that actually kept these questions in serious thought, and made provision to believe that these can be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 16 2006, 01:09 AM']Because I'm not sure it has been officially defined. However, as you seem to ignore, this does not negate the fact that it is still a possible reality. The Church has not said Limbo does NOT exist, and therefore leaves it up to the imagination that it can exist. Therefore I CHOOSE to believe in it, along with many other great minds of Catholicism that you don't seem to care about... [right][snapback]948901[/snapback][/right] [/quote] but the real question is, can the Church say that there is a permanent place as Limbo... NO! there are only two permanent places given to us from Divine revelation, Heaven and Hell (now, I don't see Limbo, there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 The only defense of limbo, I must say, is the tradition of the Fathers. Otherwise, you have nothing, but there is hardly any question as to where unregenerate babies don't go.. that is heaven. While baptism of desire and blood are certainly extraordinary means of baptism, it is hardly plausible (in fact less plausible then limbo in my opinion) to think that all babies who are unregenerate are saved by the baptism of desire, because then, not only do we negate the real effects of sin, befuddle exactly what a baptism of desire is, but we also make it an ordinary means of salavation; something which it is not. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) [quote name='uruviel' date='Apr 10 2006, 06:51 PM']well now God brings good out of EVERYTHING. As Mother Angelica once said, about the aborted babies, that the good He brings out of it is just after death they get to see His holy face, they were not guilty of a sin, and only had few weeks of life, they had a privlege, an amazing privlage. to see the holy face directly after death is a wish many have and don't gain. [right][snapback]942691[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So, where did the original sin go?!? If you don't entertain the idea that babies may have some hope in limbo, then to hell with them.. and here I thoguht people had a heart. Of course, if you believe that they enter into heaven (truncing the effect of original sin on all humanity) then i suppose your a heretic (not you specifically, of course). Unless of course, the great councils of the past mean nothing to modern theology.. God bless, Mikey Edited April 19, 2006 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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