Apotheoun Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 5 2006, 05:45 PM']I do not support the SSPX, but I was wondering how many Phatmassers did... [right][snapback]937111[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Although I disagree with the methods employed by the SSPX over the last 20 years in defense of the pre-conciliar Roman liturgy, I do support their desire for more reverent worship and for a greater availability of liturgical celebrations according to the norms set forth in the older missal of the Latin Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Apr 17 2006, 11:56 AM']Although I disagree with the methods employed by the SSPX over the last 20 years in defense of the pre-conciliar Roman liturgy, I do support their desire for more reverent worship and for a greater availability of liturgical celebrations according to the norms set forth in the older missal of the Latin Church. [right][snapback]950653[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I, too, support a few of their propositions, but I, like you, disagree with how they go about things...I think that they reject too much, but then again, I think the average Catholic does as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 humility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 [quote name='Seven77' post='952245' date='Apr 18 2006, 12:02 PM'] humility... [/quote] Hmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I'm surprised by the numbers on here...I was expecting something a little differently myself. I actually wonder how many people who support SSPX actually go, because that's gotta be even smaller. My question then is, why? According to SSPX's website no one who supports them can go if: CAN WE ATTEND THEIR MASSES? If we have to agree to the doctrinal and juridical value of the Novus Ordo Missae, then NO, for we cannot do evil that good may ensue. This condition may not be presented explicitly, but by implication, such as: * By a priest who celebrates the Novus Ordo Missae on other days of the week or at other times, * using Hosts consecrated at a Novus Ordo Missae, * or with communion in the hand; * new lectionaries, Mass facing the people, etc., * by a priest who was ordained in the New Rite, * by sermons that are modernist in inspiration (much to be feared if the celebrant habitually says the Novus Ordo Missae); or * by offering only the revised forms of the other sacraments, e.g., penance. Just for future reference, this is the US site and I'm noticing a tendency towards a very isolated philosophy. Masses in St. Peter's have always faced the people, even post Trent. All of the older churches there before Trent have an isolated altar with baldicchino in the center which faces East (when facing the people). Ergo, the "Mass facing the people" is actually a view limited to post-Vatican II saying that now Masses only face that way because of Vatican II, though it's not true. Anyways, tangent, but I'm curious how many peole would even be accepted by the SSPX because I don't think there are that many on this site that go to those Masses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' post='950602' date='Apr 17 2006, 10:36 AM'] I want you answer it all....I can't have a discussion, by myself. I have answered your questions, please answer my proposition. [/quote] That's ridiculous. How can you expect someone to answer something they have no opinion on? He already told you he has no opinion on the matter as of yet. So... what do you want him to do? Make up an answer that he doesn't accept, just to please your request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='956424' date='Apr 21 2006, 12:23 PM'] I'm surprised by the numbers on here...I was expecting something a little differently myself. I actually wonder how many people who support SSPX actually go, because that's gotta be even smaller. [/quote] I don't go to SSPX chapels -- I would miss the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom too much to do that -- but I do support their desire to celebrate Mass using the older missal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YMNolan Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' post='937601' date='Apr 6 2006, 09:57 AM'] The SSPX is whack. [/quote] wiggidy whack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' post='956424' date='Apr 21 2006, 12:23 PM'] Masses in St. Peter's have always faced the people, even post Trent. All of the older churches there before Trent have an isolated altar with baldicchino in the center which faces East (when facing the people). Ergo, the "Mass facing the people" is actually a view limited to post-Vatican II saying that now Masses only face that way because of Vatican II, though it's not true. [/quote] You have brought up an important point, because as Fr. Louis Bouyer explained in his book [u]Natural Sacredness and Christian Liturgy[/u], in the Churches where the priest -- in order to face East -- had to stand behind the altar facing the people, once the prayers of the Mass began the people turned around and faced East with the priest. Thus, there was never a time during the first millennium when the priest and the people faced each other during the prayers of the liturgy. Moreover, the modern Roman practice of having the priest face the people during the Eucharistic sacrifice is seen by the Eastern Orthodox Churches as an innovation that brings about a new obstacle to the restoration of communion between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='956500' date='Apr 21 2006, 04:04 PM'] I don't go to SSPX chapels -- I would miss the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom too much to do that -- but I do support their desire to celebrate Mass using the older missal. [/quote] Were you one who voted yes by any chance? I'm just curious...I put no, though I do agree with some of their aims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_of_the_Faith Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 While I am empathetic towards their cause, they're definately going about it the wrong way by breaking away. We coulde really use more traditionalists within the church : . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 [quote name='Defender_of_the_Faith' post='956880' date='Apr 22 2006, 12:07 AM'] While I am empathetic towards their cause, they're definately going about it the wrong way by breaking away. We coulde really use more traditionalists within the church : . [/quote] I think you and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 ditto!! and i dont have to disguise myself... people on here already know my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccator Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I'm going to be blunt....Up to date, I've yet to see any kind of positive contrabution from them toward reform within the Church. Though they seem very keen to critisise from the sidelines... (like my dad always says: the best referees are always in the crowd.) Like Luther before them - the chose to break away rather than stay and change the church from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 no. i dont see how any catholic could support this new protestantism. try to understand where they are coming from yes- i support them in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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