Help about telling how Protestents

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Marieteresa' date='Apr 5 2006, 06:51 PM']Can you explain whats the difference between formal and material heretics?[/quote]Formal heretic-one who has the taken the form and matter of heresy. That is one who has been presented the Truth but rejects it. This person defends heresy and denies the Church.

Material heretic-one who has the matter of heresy. This is one who believes in heresy without being exposed to the Truth. There is no formal rejection of the Church here for one does not know the Church.

A good book to read on this would be Outlines of Moral Theology. It is pre-Vat II and has the nihil obstat and imprimatur for those who care to know.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 4 2006, 07:32 PM']I guess I'll take my question to fisheaters if I'm going to get this sort of response.
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your problem is with the catechism, not phatmass

[b]817[/b] In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:[list]Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
[/list][b]818[/b] "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

[b]819[/b] "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

[i]footnotes:
269 UR 3 § 1.
270 Cf. CIC, can. 751.
271 Origen, Hom. in Ezech. 9,1:PG 13,732.
272 UR 3 § 1.
273 LG 8 § 2.
274 UR 3 § 2; cf. LG 15.
275 Cf. UR 3.
276 Cf. LG 8.[/i]

[Resurrexi]

Even if they are material heretics, they can't be part of the Church, can they?

[Brother Adam]

Yep. As we already explained, through their baptisms, they are members of the body of Christ, the Church, communio non plena. If you have a problem with that, you'll have to take it up with Jesus and with the Sacred Scriptures.

[N/A Gone]

Just read my sig...

adam, im impressed

[jswranch]

Perhaps I should clarify my earlier statement about Protestants not being in the church. While the canons of Trent I quoted remain true through the end of time, they apply to those who leave the faith or lead others away from the truth, not those born into Protestantism (etc.).


V2 documents (DECREE ON ECUMENISM
UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO)

3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles.

[Dust's Sister]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 4 2006, 08:08 PM']I wouldn't judge any particular case, but they may very well have never heard the Catholic faith before. Catechesis the past 40+ years has been notoriously bad. It isn't rare that I meet life long Catholics that don't know who the Eucharist is. They don't know what the role of the Pope is, and they think if they just live a good life according to their own conscience that is all they have to believe in. They just think that is what the Catholic faith is because that is what they were taught and don't know any better. You can't hold someone responsible for what they don't know, unless they are being purposefully ignorant. This isn't the case for every Catholic that leaves the faith, but I believe is the case for some. That is why, as a Catholic convert, I am getting into the catechetics field.
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that sounds exactly like me before I went to the RCIA classes. Now I know better.