abortion

[goldenchild17]

I agree. And I agree that we should use non-physical debative means before using force. But if it doesn't work, then why might this not be considered a holy war? The only problem is, who would fight such a war? Which army?

[avemaria40]

I don't think you can really have a "war" against it (and the war I'm talking about is literal, with an army, etc.) but I think that fighting against it in the legal system and the medical field is what we should do as well as aiding any pregnant woman in a crisis so that BOTH the mother and the child can get the help they need.

Hippocrates is probably rolling in his grave at what they did to his oath. He would not be pleased at all

[goldenchild17]

I'm not sure we can have a literal war yet either as I'm not sure we know an actual enemy to target. Yeah there are the various abortion groups, but it is more than that, people would do it without said groups as well, and we could never know everybody who does it and it would still exist until we stop all of the enemy. And on top of that there is no definable enemy to partake of such a war.

With that said, I do think such a war would be a just war and a necessary one to fight if these details could be worked out.

[AngelofJesus]

But are we saying that the women are being forced? When they willingly submit to have an abortion, whose fault does the act of abortion belong to? If there is no demand for abortion then there would be no abortionists. They are just the aides to the wishes of these women. It does not mean that they are not quilty of anything.

To wage war against the abortionists is just the tip of the iceberg. The women asking for it are the real killers, IMO.

[goldenchild17]

That's exactly what I'm saying. And I don't think we can ever know who ALL the real killers are. Do all those who support and/or have abortions acknowledge themselves? No. Is there a national registry of those who had or support abortion? No. So it would be very difficult to do this. Could we deliver a huge blow by knocking out the abortion facilities? Sure, but would it be victory? I don't think so.

[goldenchild17]

hehe, boy I sure hope no official happens to read this and charges me with conspiracy of mass violence :

Edited April 8, 2006 by goldenchild17

[MC Just]

I am waging war against it. Along with "planned parenthood" that sick nazi orginization created to carry out hitlers dream.

[goldenchild17]

Yuppers.

[AngelofJesus]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 7 2006, 11:45 PM']hehe, boy I sure hope no official happens to read this and charges me with conspiracy of mass          :
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Good thing this isn't mypsace.

[goldenchild17]

haha, definitely.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]The difference is that progress is being made. Heard of South Dakota? [/quote]

So if there were political progress being made with the holocaust, we shouldn't use force?

Actually Socratest pretty much said what I think the Catholic teaching really is, I just wanted you guys to acknowledge it and realize it. There's simply no room for enough success here or a legitmate authority.


I know I didn't post anything about the legitimate authority, but to mention it would only be as a lawyer in the question. That's not necessarily bad, but you have my main point and we can acknowledge I'd hope that the authority is there. If my lack of acknowleding it at the forefront becomes an issue, I'd acknowledge it later. Likewise It doesn't seem all that fruitful to expand on what "those who procure abortion" means technically. There are definitely those such as women having them and the doctors who fall into that line. True, there are some that shouldn't fall into that line, such as someone who simply thinks abortion isn't bad. If there were no one who fell into that line, I'd be arguing from abstraction and you'd be right to call me on it. But for me to express every nuance is to get detracted from the main point. If it becomes an issue in dialouge, we can begin to define. Look at the over all intent of the question. I don't see me defining it as having been necessary yet except simply because you asked.

Edited April 9, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 5 2006, 11:16 PM']The abortionist. The theoretical war would be against the abortionists, and the government that aids and allows abortion.

It is absurd to say that a war against abortion would necessitate deliberately killing women.
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Women are the ones who procure the abortion. The definition of procure is "to get by special effort". Abortionists do not procure abortions. They perform them.

The actual doctor is only the middleman. The woman is the one directly carrying out the abortion. Unless she lives in a land where abortion is inflicted by law, she is the only one who decides if the baby lives or dies.

Edited April 9, 2006 by Era Might

[prose]

[quote]pro·cure  Audio pronunciation of "procure" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (pr-kyr, pr-)
v. pro·cured, pro·cur·ing, pro·cures
v. tr.

  1. To get by special effort; obtain or acquire: managed to procure a pass.
  2. To bring about; effect: procure a solution to a knotty problem.
  3. To obtain (a sexual partner) for another.

[/quote]

So, I would say that this question would insinuate waging war, and therefore killing women who are gettin abortions.

Also, doctors who are providing them.

I think it would be a war killing many, many people who could otherwise change without their deaths.

If by "war" you mean killing, then absolutely not.

If by "war" you mean through other means. Absolutely.

[Didacus]

A lot of good points have been raised in this thread already. We have some very good thinkers here on phatmass to say the least.


Another pint ot consider:

Abortion in North America (won't say for other naitons or regions which I am less familiar) is more an ideology than it is a group of people. You cannot effectively make war with an ideology by making war on the people who hold it.

The only viable way to fight an ideology is to meet it on its palying field - the ideological one. Thus we must debate it, bring to light the fallacies that persist in bringing about the belief which is so wrong and mistaken. Taht is how the war is being faught and in this sense the war has been declared back in 1973! (the year I was born by way - that always kinda spooked me out a little)


oh and a little prayer never hurt either.




I can honestly say that since I began posting here on phatmass I have earned an all new respect of Americans in general. In contrast, though I love my nation - Canada, undeniably, i cannot any longer be patriotic since in my country we are losing the fight against the culture of death. The US however, seem to be turning things around. Well done! Stand tall, be strong, and be faithful.

[Didacus]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Apr 9 2006, 02:28 AM']So if there were political progress being made with the holocaust, we shouldn't use force?


[snip]

simply because you asked.
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No offense Dairy but your posts are sometimes extremely hard to follow. Reading that popst above for example - sounds like one big continuous run-on sentence. Very hard to find your point.

Write smaller protions - baby steps! i cna't seem to jog as fast as you.

(heck, most of the time I have trouble walking)