Radical Traditionalists

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Apr 3 2006, 03:47 PM']Pearls before swine?
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your hip hop music is pearls and we are swine!

maybe you have a pride problem!

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Apr 3 2006, 08:33 PM']They need to remove the giant beams from their eyes before telling us to remove our splinters. We are not trying to get hip-hop into the mass, we are NOT trying to corrupt the mass! they need to stop being "superpopes" and follow the real pope.
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One wonders whether they would've insulted St Ambrose for his utilisation of non-liturgical hymns to bolster the Catholics under siege in the basilica from Empress Justina's Arian supporting army?

[point5]

Everyone needs to chill out. It is not even worth the time to try and convince everyone that hip-hop does not have to be bad. There are always extremists...it just so happens that there are a bunch of extremists on the patmass phorums who happen to care more about what happens in cyberspace than in the real world.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='point5' date='Apr 3 2006, 10:56 PM']Everyone  needs to chill out.  It is not even  worth the time to try and convince everyone that hip-hop does not have to be bad.  There are always extremists...it just so happens that there are a bunch of extremists on the patmass phorums who happen to care more about what happens in cyberspace than in the real world.
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i always knew i liked you...

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Apr 3 2006, 01:27 PM']schismatic...
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Umm... Is there any heresy in the following statement?

"What is the webmistress's statement of faith?

I believe each and every point of dogma in the Nicene Creed in the same manner the Church has always understood them. I believe each and every solemnly defined dogma ever offered by any Pope or Council, and fully agree with each statement given in Sacrorum Antistitum.

I believe Vatican II was a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council convoked and approbated by true Popes. I believe the documents from the Council were badly and ambiguously written and that said documents need to be interpreted only in light of tradition, even if they taught nothing that Catholics must accept de fide.

I believe that Benedict XVI is a true Pope and that we must pray for him and his Bishops every day.

I believe that all Masses offered by validly ordained priests using valid matter, form, and intent, are valid Masses.

I pray for the restoration of the human element of Holy Mother Church and a return to a Tradition (all of it -- Sacraments, doctrine, customs, disciplines) enlivened by true charity. I pray also for large, solidly Catholic families headed by strong, caring men, and nurtured by strong women who are treated with the same respect and dignity with which Our Lord treated Our Lady.

I reject the false ecumenism, neo-Gnosticism, Judaizing, Protestantizing, and liberalizing, that have marked the post-conciliar period. From a different angle, I also reject sentimentalism, Puritanism, Jansenism, and legalism wherever I find it.

I also reject the feminizing of the Church, and see a strong patriarchy and support for fatherhood as the sine qua non of civilization. On the other hand, I reject "Victorianism" or "1950-ism" -- the idea that we need to "return" to some Protestant, rigid, Beaver Cleaver or Victorian view of "normalcy" in which women's talents and needs were devalued or sentimentalized away, and in which women were condescended to as if they were overgrown children. No Catholic who knows Our Lady should have this sort of attitude toward women.

I also reject the tendency of some to deny (or behave as if they deny) the fact that the natural virtues and actual grace exist outside of Holy Mother Church; the trend toward Manichaeism on the part of some is very dangerous.

My worldview is profoundly Catholic, medieval, and Italian. It is firmly centered on the Incarnation and sees the common modern desire to "spiritualize" everything away as nothing short of the heresy of dualism.

I believe the Church is a "hospital for sinners" like me rather than a social club for the perfect (may we all say "yes" to the Divine Physician and be healed!) While I believe absolutely that we must judge sin, I am very bothered by those who judge souls and who judge rashly."

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='Apr 3 2006, 02:47 PM']Pearls before swine?
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Greatest Comic Strip ever I tell ya... :

And going to CGR isn't pearls before swine? There's something seriously disordered here if you can debate with Protestants but not with other Catholics(mostly non-Schismatic ones at that...)

[Dave]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='Apr 3 2006, 11:21 PM']Umm... Is there any heresy in the following statement?

"What is the webmistress's statement of faith?

I believe each and every point of dogma in the Nicene Creed in the same manner the Church has always understood them. I believe each and every solemnly defined dogma ever offered by any Pope or Council, and fully agree with each statement given in Sacrorum Antistitum.

I believe Vatican II was a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council convoked and approbated by true Popes. I believe the documents from the Council were badly and ambiguously written and that said documents need to be interpreted only in light of tradition, even if they taught nothing that Catholics must accept de fide.

I believe that Benedict XVI is a true Pope and that we must pray for him and his Bishops every day.

I believe that all Masses offered by validly ordained priests using valid matter, form, and intent, are valid Masses.

I pray for the restoration of the human element of Holy Mother Church and a return to a Tradition (all of it -- Sacraments, doctrine, customs, disciplines) enlivened by true charity. I pray also for large, solidly Catholic families headed by strong, caring men, and nurtured by strong women who are treated with the same respect and dignity with which Our Lord treated Our Lady.

I reject the false ecumenism, neo-Gnosticism, Judaizing, Protestantizing, and liberalizing, that have marked the post-conciliar period. From a different angle, I also reject sentimentalism, Puritanism, Jansenism, and legalism wherever I find it.

I also reject the feminizing of the Church, and see a strong patriarchy and support for fatherhood as the sine qua non of civilization. On the other hand, I reject "Victorianism" or "1950-ism" -- the idea that we need to "return" to some Protestant, rigid, Beaver Cleaver or Victorian view of "normalcy" in which women's talents and needs were devalued or sentimentalized away, and in which women were condescended to as if they were overgrown children. No Catholic who knows Our Lady should have this sort of attitude toward women.

I also reject the tendency of some to deny (or behave as if they deny) the fact that the natural virtues and actual grace exist outside of Holy Mother Church; the trend toward Manichaeism on the part of some is very dangerous.

My worldview is profoundly Catholic, medieval, and Italian. It is firmly centered on the Incarnation and sees the common modern desire to "spiritualize" everything away as nothing short of the heresy of dualism.

I believe the Church is a "hospital for sinners" like me rather than a social club for the perfect (may we all say "yes" to the Divine Physician and be healed!) While I believe absolutely that we must judge sin, I am very bothered by those who judge souls and who judge rashly."
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I think this review of Fish Eaters from Catholic Culture says it all: [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=1915"]http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_...cfm?recnum=1915[/url]

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Dave' date='Apr 4 2006, 08:53 AM']I think this review of Fish Eaters from Catholic Culture says it all: [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=1915"]http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_...cfm?recnum=1915[/url]
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I don't go by hearsay, I go for the original source. That what I gave above is the webmaster's statement of faith and the faith of her website(save some individuals who have no say in what goes on the site). If there is heresy in that statement then i will concur. If there is not, then such a claim as calling her a schismatic is so disrespectful.

[Dave]

Hearsay? Did you even read the review of the site? Apparently not. Did you even read the examples CatholicCulture.net gave of lack of fidelity toward the Magisterium on that site? Apparently not. Did you go to the site and see for yourself? Apparently not. The reviewer had THOROUGHLY reviewed Fish Eaters, and you'd do well to do the same. And if you must know, I've read so much stuff on that site BY THE WEBMISTRESS HERSELF that denigrates the Novus Ordo Mass itself (rather than the way many priests and lay people abuse it) or downplays the authority of Vatican II (she's said in no uncertain terms that Vatican II is "fallible" ... well she's wrong because all ecumenical councils are infallible).

[Maria]

I personally don't particularly like rap, but I really don't see that there's any problem inherent in its Christian use.

[Dave]

bump

[goldenchild17]

[quote]Hearsay?  Did you even read the review of the site?  Apparently not.  Did you even read the examples CatholicCulture.net gave of lack of fidelity toward the Magisterium on that site?  Apparently not.[/quote]
Yup I did. Doesn't warrant schismatic claims.

[quote]Did you go to the site and see for yourself?  Apparently not. The reviewer had THOROUGHLY reviewed Fish Eaters, and you'd do well to do the same.[/quote]
I've been a member there reading the articles and the forum for the last 9 months now. I think I'm quite familiar with the stance of the site.

[quote]And if you must know, I've read so much stuff on that site BY THE WEBMISTRESS HERSELF that denigrates the Novus Ordo Mass itself (rather than the way many priests and lay people abuse it) or downplays the authority of Vatican II (she's said in no uncertain terms that Vatican II is "fallible" ... well she's wrong because all ecumenical councils are infallible).[/quote]
There's WAY too much here to deal with it would take a whole thread to handle, but her statement of faith makes it clear that she submits to the authority of the Pope and believes Benedict is the pope. That's all I need to know. If Vatican II is indeed to be considered infallible then this brings up a completely different subject that I don't even think it okay to go into on this board. She considers the new mass to be valid, though says it has it's problems. Many believe this, many who go to the new mass believe this and still believe it to be valid. Her statement of faith that I posted shows where she is, not schismatic according to Rome.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Somebody write a rap song for Fisheaters.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='thedude' date='Apr 6 2006, 03:26 PM']Somebody write a rap song for Fisheaters.
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I would try but I can't think of a single word that rhymes with excommunicated.

[AngelofJesus]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Apr 6 2006, 02:09 PM']I would try but I can't think of a single word that rhymes with excommunicated.
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