kateri05 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 i am ALL about the double dip!! some of them chips is BIG and you need to dip twice to really get it covered. PLUS, if you tried to get enough dip on the big chip the first time to cover 2 bite worth, you're just gonna make a big mess and end up with dip on your shirt. not that i'd know.... but i've heard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [quote name='kateri05' date='Mar 30 2006, 01:02 PM']i am ALL about the double dip!! some of them chips is BIG and you need to dip twice to really get it covered. PLUS, if you tried to get enough dip on the big chip the first time to cover 2 bite worth, you're just gonna make a big mess and end up with dip on your shirt. not that i'd know.... but i've heard.... [right][snapback]928429[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I get dip on my shirt all the time. Hence, I am a BIG fan of the Tide pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 uh-oh. down with Tide! up with Shout Wipes! : but your premise, is still good. what is it with dip that makes it always want to be on your shirt rather than in your tummy where it belongs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [quote name='kateri05' date='Mar 30 2006, 01:18 PM']uh-oh. down with Tide! up with Shout Wipes! : but your premise, is still good. what is it with dip that makes it always want to be on your shirt rather than in your tummy where it belongs? [right][snapback]928445[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [img]http://www.tide.com/images/tidetogo/site/header_right.gif[/img] Nuff said. Seriously, I don't know what the deal is with dip. It's annoying, though, how often it ends up on my shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 you guys need to argue more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Mar 30 2006, 02:55 PM']you guys need to argue more [right][snapback]928546[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No we don't. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [b]yes[/b] you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Mar 29 2006, 08:36 PM']Its no wonder that I heart you We agree so often [right][snapback]927850[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Its good to see you agreeing with him. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 30 2006, 08:25 AM']The only critique I have of it is that it doesn't provide a means for current aliens to get some form of amnesty. Amnesty for people who are currently illegally residing in the country makes good business sense, although I'm sure it doesn't have enough popular backing for it to make political sense. [right][snapback]928231[/snapback][/right] [/quote]The problem with giving illegals amnesty, is that it isn't fair to those who have legally immigrated, or have legal work visas. Many hispanics from rural area (Mexico, Centeral Am, So. Am, Islands) do not even begin to comprehend the legal culture of the US. They will be duped, intimidated, and expolited for cheap labor because the market is there. The US has the jobs, they won't go away. What needs to be done, is ensure every single worker recieves a fair wage. A fair wage is determined by market forces. If you have a populace of legal and capable workers, a business owner will hire and pay the least amount that he can get sufficient labor for. If the employer can only hire legal workers, the legal workers also have the option of getting jobs other than picking fruit. The farmer would have to compete with people who do skilled labor, block masons, flat work concrete, sheet rock, roofers, etc., that don't require education, but where skills are obtained by on the job experience. Who, with other options available to them, would choose to pick s'berries at $1/flat, when they can get on a construction crew, start at $8 and hour, and in less than a year, be making at least $10 with benefits? If amnesty is given, it does not solve the problem for future immigrants. They will be convinced, if they sneak in, wait a few years, they will get citizenship and be able to get the good jobs. Meanwhile, they are indentured servants or slaves in labor work gangs. Unable to engage freely in our society because they are illegal. Not knowing what labor laws are being broken because they don't know what is wrong and who to report it to. How would they know they've been there long enough? Their life may still be better than living in the mountains in Panama, but is it really the opportunity that is available in America? Who really benefits? It's not the farmers as much, because the farmer next door is using the same labor rates so they are competing for business. In fact, an honest farmer is forced to underpay or higer illegals to match the margins of a dishonest farmer. (When I say farmer, think bigger company that has farm managers.) Amnesty treats a symptom, but is not part of the cure. The cure is to make legal immigration the desireable and possible option. The cure also is to enforce existing labor laws and make ALL employers follow them. I'm in construction. There are LOTS of companies that hire illegals and get away with it. Of course they are cheaper than others, because they don't pay payroll taxes, don't pay workers comp, and pay less in wages. I have to compete while paying all taxes, worker comp, and provide benefits such as free health insurance. I have to abandon the private construction market where laws aren't enforced, and only do government work where laws are sometimes enforced. Meanwhile, fat lazy average Americans complain when they have to pay $40 to get their yard mowed and a tomatoe may cost $3 bucks. The employers will always make their profit, and don't make extra profit because wide-spread exploitation forces them to compete with other labor exploiters. The cheap goods and services are cheaper than they should be because the discount is bought and paid for by the lowest of the poor, the illegal immigrant whose only other option is to go back to their own country and be even more poor and live in even worse conditions. America must make clear choices. If you want people to get fair wages, then you pay for the labor costs of the goods and services you buy. It is stupid to think taxes come from somwhere else, and that will provide help to the illegal immigrants. The illegals wouldn't need our help if they were really able to take advantage of the opportunites fairly. There really are worse jobs than picking fruit, and it doesn't take a union and high wages to get people to do them. How many illegals mine coal, work in lumber mills, make steel, work in a chemical plant? These jobs don't require an education, but training that is gained by otj experience. Illegals work in construction, food processing, picking, because large groups of people are hired on a temporary basis whick allows labor gangs to pimp their people. Labor gangs have an endless supply of desperate people who are willing to work cheap and in awful conditions because it's better than in their home country. Yeah, that's great for our economy that we can buy tacos, so very tasty and good for you, for less than a buck, instead of $1.5 or $2. You won't fix it by boycotting Taco Bell and eating at your neighborhood taqeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 jas, Definitely agree with you there. The question is do we really want to fix it or are we just paying lip service to the issue? Explotation of a cheap workforce seems to be the buisness standard when dealing with any MNC and it seems that it is the default buisness model in the world today. If the men that have the most influence in the government are being influenced by the most prominent buisness leaders it should be no suprise that we are not doing what is best. You have some excellent points. Of course the american "consumer" would be outraged at having to pay more for tomatoes and other edible goods, but we'll gladly pay $600 a year for standard digital cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 The arguement about it not being fair to those who have complied with the system is true. However, one does not correct this by screwing over everyone else. I am not sure if there is a temporal solution for the government to follow on that. Maybe they should get five bucks from j(h)amie? (Or seriously a tax credit or something)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Jas, I'm not saying that we need straight, no strings attached amnesty. And, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some sort of penalty for having immigrated without the proper documentation. The problem is that as the law currently stands, there is no way for many of those currently in the country illegally to get to legal status. Most of them are barred from applying for legal status for three or ten years, depending on how long they've been here. Why not levy a fine on undocumented immigrants who want to stay and get to legal status? I know plenty of people who are desperate to find some sort of means to get to legal status and would be happy to pay ... they just don't HAVE a way to get to legal status. Instituting a fine in conjunction with allowing for more guest workers seems to be a good way of addressing both the needs of current businesses and of future immigrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 [quote name='Theoketos' date='Mar 30 2006, 10:38 PM']The arguement about it not being fair to those who have complied with the system is true. However, one does not correct this by screwing over everyone else. I am not sure if there is a temporal solution for the government to follow on that. Maybe they should get five bucks from j(h)amie? (Or seriously a tax credit or something)? [right][snapback]929136[/snapback][/right] [/quote] James would that be five bucks total or per illegal? *looks at checkbook balance* Let's see.. that's 5 bucks times 11 million... I'm going to need more checks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I disagree 100% on levying ANY fine on illegal immigrant. The pocket that should be fined is the employer. That money should be used to expand the immigration department. Immigration laws and proceedures should be addressed and streamlined. One of the biggest things is the quotas need to be revised. Illegals have the advantage of having a little more $$ and wherewithal if they've been in this Country. They should get in line just as everyone else once new immigration laws or proceedures are in place. The only advantage they get is for the Gov to first go after the employers, not the workers. It won't be a perfect transition, but eventually it will work out. I know way too many legal immigrants that came here with nothing. Mexican, Guatamala, Panama, Costa Rican, Cuban, Haitian, Jamacian, Columbian, Iraqi, Jordanian, Cambodian, Viet Namese, etc., that make it with a little help. They were no smarter, no richer, no better then the many hispanic illegals I come accross. What's the difference? They have more opportunities for other jobs. They don't have to subject themselves to labor pimps to find work, housing, etc. They learn to rent better places to live, can sign up for utitilites, say NO to working for $3 an hour plus board (which would be a condemned mobile home). The people who hire illegals are the ones that should be punished to remove the reason why illegals come. When Mahoney wants to feed and shelter illegals, he isn't doing the illegals any real favor, he's feeding and sheltering the 'slaves' for the slave pimps to come and put them to work. If Mahoney could put two thoughts together, he should have organized the legal hispanics to press the government to put the slave laborers out of business and correct the immigration laws to allow the US labor force to import people legally and continue the real American dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 31, 2006 Author Share Posted March 31, 2006 [quote] When Mahoney wants to feed and shelter illegals, he isn't doing the illegals any real favor, he's feeding and sheltering the 'slaves' for the slave pimps to come and put them to work. If Mahoney could put two thoughts together, he should have organized the legal hispanics to press the government to put the slave laborers out of business and correct the immigration laws to allow the US labor force to import people legally and continue the real American dream.[/quote] Perhaps, and this is just crazy talk, he wants to do both. Just as the bishops and cardinals actively work to do both in Central and South America where plantation workers are truly treated as slaves. It has to be a multi faceted venture. And making it a felony to take care of the poor, is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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