Our Response To "the Challenge"

[phatcatholic]

pham,

whoever claims a section will be responsible for writing out the response.......but that person can get help from the entire pham. post your questions, and any rough drafts of your response, and we can all provide pointers to make it better. then, when all the drafts are complete, i'll put them together, post it in the apologetics board, and send it to the webmaster of the site.

again, here is the site: http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Fello...est.Appeal.html

thanks for all ur help. if u want to be in charge of this section, send me a message or post your request here.

here are the sections again. just reply back here w/ what section you want.

1. Preface/Rome Saith, But What Saith the Scripture?

2. Rome Saith: Tradition Equal to Scripture.

3. Rome Saith: Interpretation of the Word of God Belongs Solely to the Pope

4. Rome Saith: Headship of the Pope Over All the Flock

5. Rome Saith: Papal Infallibility in Faith and Morals

6. Rome Saith: Papal Infallibility Extends Over Scripture

7. Rome Saith: Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary

8. Rome Saith: Ever-Virginity of Mary

9. Rome Saith: Fullness of Salvation Only Through the Catholic Church

10. Rome Saith: Purgatory Necessary After Death for Final Purification

11. Rome Saith: Transubstantiation Changes the Bread and Wine Into Christ

12. Rome Saith: All Mortal Sins Must Be Confessed to a Priest

13. Rome Saith: Justification of the Veneration of Icons

14. Conclusion

thanks pham,

phatcatholic

[CatholicAndFanatical]

since no one has responded I am going to post my thoughts of this website, its the same thoughts that was in the Debate Table section.

//from Debate Table

oh wow, that site is weak man..

he quotes scriptures that defend the supremacy of the Pope, then the next sentence is "What does Scriptures say about this?" then goes into his anti-catholic babble, but he just quoted scriptures to support it, why then ask "What does scripture say about this?" when he just said what scriptures say about this and it fits perfectly to Church teachings..he's a loon.

And his arguement about Mary's Perpetual Virginity is nonsense, typical stuff. he cant fathom the fact that Mary HAD to be sinless for her to give birth to God. Why would the God of the Universe want to be born in a woman with sin on her? God hates sin, he wouldnt, he would cleanse her and make her like Eve was before the fall, sinless. Since Mary is the New Eve, who brought life to the world, she is to be like the Old Eve before the fall, who brought death to the world, sinless. Why is that so hard to figure out?

Then he goes on to say that Mary could not be an ever-virgin because scriptures say she didnt know joseph UNTIL the first-born..but he left off some key words, Jesus wasnt only the first-born, but the ONLY

BEGOTTEN son, To be a Begotten Son, you are to be the ONLY son. Read my Perpetual Virginity article in the Apologetics Section based off St Aquinas

In talking about Purgatory he refers to a misunderstanding in Christs Judgment, he is correct that after Death there is Judgement, but he is forgetting that 'Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven'. And if one was to die with even a slight blemish of sin on their soul they cannot enter heaven, so who then can enter heaven? Purgatory is not mentioned in Scriptures but another life is. In Matthew 12:32 Sins of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the next. So where is He Talking about? In Heaven all is forgiven and there is no need for forgiveness there, Cant be Hell because you are damned in Hell and there is no chance of coming back. Only a third option can be possible. This Third Option, where we suffer loss, but saved as through fire (1 Cor. 3:15), was named Purgatory. Because we are Purged of our blemish of sins. Like Gold needs to be purified by being heated up to get its blemishs out. We all fall short in many aspects (James 3:2), so Christ has a way to save us if we die with slight sin on our souls.

In speaking of Confession, he totally forgot to mention what Scriptures say "Receive the Holy Spirit, whos sins you forgive, they are forgiven, whos sins you hold bound, will be held bound". Christ said this to the Apostles, not to all of us. Only the ordained are allowed to forgive sins. So did this special gift from God go away when the Apostles died? No, in Acts 1 you see an example of Apostolic Succession, they found a person

to take the place of Judas. Matthias, now is an Apostle, given all the gifts that the Apostles were given by Christ - the Holy Spirit, the authority to distribute the sacrements like anointing, the Eucharist and confession. All the successors have the same Authority that the Apostles have. which was God's plan.

This guy took a part of the Catechism and tried to dispute it. His arguements are weak and in one area he would show scripture to support the Church then the next sentence he would forget he just showed proof of us then ask "What does scripture say?" - well duh, you just told us what Scriptures say.

CatholicAndFanatical

[Muschi]

Hi!

I'm game. What sections are you needing the most help from? Maybe this will be a good, constructive way for me to spend my Christmas day if you respond soon enough. Otherwise, I'll be ready before the New Year.

If you don't have a preference of a topic for me to look up, I think I'd like to tackle the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and the Primacy of Peter/Pope/Infallibility.

This'll be just like a major homework assignment! Every year during Christmas break, we always had some lenghthy term paper to turn in! What a stroll down memory lane! :D - Muschi.

[phatcatholic]

muschi and others,

sorry so late w/ my response. i had to take a break from the pc and spend quality time w/ the fam (not that i'm complaining!). anyway, muschi, that's cool w/ me. just make sure that when u decide on a section, you tell me which section # it is. for example, "i want sections 1, 2, and 3." that way i know for sure which sections you have. just post here saying which sections you want. whatever u choose is fine.

CAF, do u want a section? anyone else?

holla back,

phatcatholic

[Hazilloe]

Muschi,

If it's okay with you, do you think I could help you with the Perpetual Virginity of Mary ?

It's the only one I'm confident I can help with.

So what say you? :huh:

[phatcatholic]

thanks hazilloe! if u need any resources or articles, just let me know.

also, it may be easier to get a hold of muschi if you send her a private message.

pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Muschi]

Ok.

How about section 8? (I hope I'm not missing anything further)?

I'll stick to this one for now and haziloe.....yeah! I definately welcome help! Whoo-hoo! So, do we post our answers here or to the site you gave? - Muschi

Sorry to be so dense!.......I've been working overtime lately and can barely tell the difference between my _____ and my ______! (you fill in the blanks! ) ;o) - Muschi :rolleyes:

[phatcatholic]

muschi and others,

once u sign up for a section, u can post ur response in this thread. i may separate this into different threads, but i'm not sure yet. until then, just post in this one.

thanks!

phatcatholic

[the_rev]

I am not understanding, but if I understands which either 11 or 13!!!!

Please explain what you want, because I'm not comprehending, do you want scripture support?

How long does it have to be!

[phatcatholic]

rev,

first go to the site in question and read what is written under each section:

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Fello...est.Appeal.html

once u do that, pick the section that you would be the most effective in refuting. basically, use whatever tools necessary (scripture, tradition, early church fathers, logic, reasoning, etc...) to show that his claims about catholicism are incorrect and to defend the catholic viewpoint on whatever doctrine is in question. as for length, just write as much you need to in order to make your argument as effectively as possible.

does this make sense? let me know if u have any more questions.........and which section you are going to take.

thanks,

phatcatholic

[the_rev]

Ok, I understand! Let me read this site now. And I will post what I would be intetested in doing.

[the_rev]

I would be best used to do number 11

[phatcatholic]

aiight bro, do ur thing!..............anyone else want to do a section?

[phatcatholic]

notice here how i was all fired up when this board was first created, but no one was really with me. now, we have 61 people signed up for a Phatmass Crusade!! GOD IS GOOD!!

thank you all for making this board great