Protestant "fathers"

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Mar 28 2006, 11:03 PM']Brother Adam, I am very impressed with your tone on this discussion.

Dspen, I am sad by your tone in this talk.

The issue with protestant ecumenism is that we are basically telling them to abandon the faith that they have, the saving faith they have in christ and borg themselves. This is naive and not in the spirit of Ut Unum Sint. What we need to do is have an understanding of the processes of their faith and show them how the catholic church is the fulfillment of that faith. It is the progression of it. Anytime I bring up ecumenism dialogue this issue needs to be understood. Well edcucated protestants will not abandon the faith that they have. Lil shock messages will only get the uneducated sheep that didnt bother understanding their faith and will just provide the same for us. I am a semister away from an undergrad in theology at a very well respected protestant bible college. The whole idea of "their theology is flawed, and weak and not worth knowing" is an insult to your ability to understand our seperated brothers in the spirit we are called to do.

Brother Adam, as a fellow convert-revert (from a baptist background non the less) I would do anything I can to help you with this. I have an extensive library with this purpose in mind.

Anything from Karl Barth is a good start for systematition type of theology. It is pseudo calvinist to say the least, but it will help

Letters from a skeptic by Dr. Greg Boyd is a good evangelical overview. It is basic, but the point of evangelical theology is that anyone can share the simplistics of it. I have a long personal relationship with Boyd. So i can credit this book.
For pneumatolgy he writes very good books, just do a search for him.

JP Moreland is a good writer.

CS lewis mere christianty is the main guy protestants will site for their book.

Alot of protestant theology is developed by reading other theologians and filtering it thru their own reasoning and understanding of scripture. Almost a development from the negative.
[right][snapback]926368[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[Paladin]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 28 2006, 11:09 PM']why would you read protestant books?

Just throw them into the fire where they belong.

this is from the catechism of  Pius X:

    32 Q: What should a Christian do who has been given a Bible by a Protestant or by an agent of the Protestants?

    A: A Christian to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church. If it was accepted by inadvertence, it must be burnt as soon as possible or handed in to the Parish Priest.

    33 Q: Why does the Church forbid Protestant Bibles?

    A: The Church forbids Protestant Bibles because, either they have been altered and contain errors, or not having her approbation and footnotes explaining the obscure meanings, they may be harmful to the Faith. It is for that same reason that the Church even forbids translations of the Holy Scriptures already approved by her which have been reprinted without the footnotes approved by her.
[right][snapback]926380[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
The Church no longer bans any books. And, many modern translations (tacky as they can be) are accepted by both the Catholic Church and Protestants, and many are even coming back to the Deuterocanonicals. Besides, I don't care where a particular translation of the Bible is from, I'm not going to burn it because it's still the Holy Scriptures.

If you just tell a Protestant, "The Church is right, heretic," they will walk away and never get a chance to experience the fullness of the Faith because you insulted them. This approach lacks Christian charity. Understand their faith background so you can better persuade them into seeking fullness with the See of Peter.

It really isn't even a matter of telling them they're wrong, because in many cases they're right: they accept the divinity of Jesus, the necessity of Baptism, the Holy Trinity, the need to evangelize. Heck, most do the evangelization thing far better than your average Catholic. By simply rejecting everything they believe, you will embolden them and cause them to turn more hearts away from the Catholic Church. That does no one a favor. And if you believe in the validity of Baptism, most Protestants are members of the Church because they received a valid (though illicit) Baptism. It's just a matter of convincing them of the rest of the Church's doctrines and sacraments. So if a Protestant hands you a book on their faith, read it so you can better be prepared to convert them.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Paladin

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 28 2006, 02:52 PM'] That's like saying "We are going to discuss diplomatic relations with China" and no nothing about Communionism.
[right][snapback]925536[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Excellent point and I agree wholeheartedly. But I think you've been studying too hard. Though the idea of Communionism does sound lovely. Wouldn't it be great if the world were full of Communionists?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Mar 30 2006, 10:26 AM']Excellent point and I agree wholeheartedly. But I think you've been studying too hard. Though the idea of Communionism does sound lovely. Wouldn't it be great if the world were full of Communionists?
[right][snapback]928232[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I'm a Communionist. Hardcore.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Mar 30 2006, 09:26 AM']Excellent point and I agree wholeheartedly. But I think you've been studying too hard. Though the idea of Communionism does sound lovely. Wouldn't it be great if the world were full of Communionists?
[right][snapback]928232[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I'm not sure I understand your post.

To me, Catholicism does not live inside a vacuum, oblivous to what takes place outside its family. In fact, most heresies begin from within. If we refuse to listen to other viewpoints beyond our own, why should others then not refuse to listen to our message of hope and redemption? If I say to a Calvinist "I will preach Catholicism to you, but you had dare not try to tell me what it is you believe" it would be absurd for the Calvinist to even listen to me for a minute.

Okay, I see, I made an error in spelling. I actually had thought I corrected it immediately after posting, but apparently the edit did not take.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Brother Adam

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Paladin' date='Mar 30 2006, 08:10 AM']If you just tell a Protestant, "The Church is right, heretic," they will walk away and never get a chance to experience the fullness of the Faith because you insulted them.  This approach lacks Christian charity.
[right][snapback]928198[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

no one is saying this.... do we need to spell it out, AGAIN??!?

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 30 2006, 10:41 AM']I'm a Communionist. Hardcore.
[right][snapback]928250[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I really didn't want to know your pr0n preferences.....

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 30 2006, 09:41 AM']I'm not sure I understand your post.

To me, Catholicism does not live inside a vacuum, oblivous to what takes place outside its family. In fact, most heresies begin from within. If we refuse to listen to other viewpoints beyond our own, why should others then not refuse to listen to our message of hope and redemption? If I say to a Calvinist "I will preach Catholicism to you, but you had dare not try to tell me what it is you believe" it would be absurd for the Calvinist to even listen to me for a minute.

Okay, I see, I made an error in spelling. I actually had thought I corrected it immediately after posting, but apparently the edit did not take.
[right][snapback]928251[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It was just a little joke. I said you must be studying too hard because your fingers are obviously used to typing "communion" quite often. I misspell "rosary" just about every time (including just now) because it's too close to my daughter's name. It was just playful. I think the idea of being a communionist is fantastic-- even if it wasn't your intention. If your typo had made a word that had no actual meaning, I wouldn't have said anything.

But back to the topic. I think you are right. When discussing ideas it's important to know what the other guy is thinking. Especially when words are defined differently.