My mom is an usher

[Tarcisius]

Well I havent found anything in Church teaching so far regarding the matter so maybe I am wrong, but honestly a woman should not have a position of power at Mass.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:08 PM']Well I havent found anything in Church teaching so far regarding the matter so maybe I am wrong, but honestly a woman should not have a position of power at Mass.
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[quote]34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. 35 But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.[/quote]


yeah me too.

[MilesChristi]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:13 PM']One way of looking at is that the position of Usher is one of Lay Authority and as such a man should hold it.
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Ah yes, the Usher...Potentate of the pews and Wielder of the wicker collection basket. :

Honestly, I think the position is one of servitude rather than authority. Pointing out a pew or holding a basket is merely a help to those in the congregation. I've certainly never felt that an usher had a position of authority over me, nor I over the usher. Since the duties of ushering aren't part of the liturgy itself, I don't see any good reason why a woman shouldn't perform them if needed.

[homeschoolmom]

Now, if ushers held real authority they'd been given poking sticks to make sure everyone made a contribution... seeing as they are merely assisting with the collection, however, I would have to say there is zero authority in the position-- zippo....

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Mar 26 2006, 03:31 PM']Now, if ushers held real authority they'd been given poking sticks to make sure everyone made a contribution... seeing as they are merely assisting with the collection, however, I would have to say there is zero authority in the position-- zippo....
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Or cattle prods to keep people in line....

[homeschoolmom]

"NO WHISPERING!!!" zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZAP!!!!

[p0lar_bear]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Tarcisius' date='Mar 26 2006, 01:08 PM']Well I havent found anything in Church teaching so far regarding the matter so maybe I am wrong, but honestly a woman should not have a position of power at Mass.
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I wonder if Blessed Virgin feels the same way when we pray to her, Queen of Heaven, at mass. I think being the Queen signifies a position of authority. I don't see ushers as having any authority.

Edited March 26, 2006 by Brother Adam

[dimco926]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:19 PM']I wonder if Blessed Virgin feels the same way when we pray to her, Queen of Heaven, at mass. I think being the Queen signifies a position of authority. I don't see ushers as having any authority.
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I also do not see ushers having authority in church, but they are so very, very helpful. My mom loves to help people to their seats, find someone that they wanted to sit by, help the moms with their kids...etc.....

However, I can say with absolute certainity that my mom would take anyone down that disrespected the church in any way, shape or form. She doesn't need a poky stick or cattle prod--one would be amazed at how quickly she can do the "back of the head slap" ....it is like it comes out of nowhere!

On a different note. I could never understand the "seen and not heard" concept for women in church teachings while growing up because it seem to contradict of the important significance of the Blessed Mary.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 26 2006, 03:19 PM']I wonder if Blessed Virgin feels the same way when we pray to her, Queen of Heaven, at mass. I think being the Queen signifies a position of authority. I don't see ushers as having any authority.
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St. Paul says it is a shame for a woman to speak in church.
Women have no authority in the church and should not be given authority.

at one of my many parishes we have no pastor. but we have a woma "pastoral life director"

yuck. she runs everything and tried to shake my hand after mass. ( i did not let her) no thanks.

[homeschoolmom]

Heaven forbid someone try to be friendly! No way lady. Shake your own stupid hand...

(Good thinking EENS )

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:17 PM']St. Paul says it is a shame for a woman to speak in church.
Women have no authority in the church and should not be given authority.

at one of my many parishes we have no pastor. but we have a woma "pastoral life director"

yuck. she runs everything and tried to shake my hand after mass. ( i did not let her)  no thanks.
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You are avoiding the question. We can speak about your Fundamentalist interpretation of the Pauline epistle in a moment (a literalist-only interpretation that does not seek to understand the scriptures through thoughtful biblical exegesis), first I'd like you to address prayer to Mary, the Queen of Heaven at mass. Should we ignore the Blessed Mother of God altogether at worship? Or perhaps, do you assert that she has no authority in the life of man?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:19 PM']Heaven forbid someone try to be friendly! No way lady. Shake your own stupid hand...

(Good thinking EENS )
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she was taking the position of the Priest. She was acting as a pastor. i was not going to condone that or support such madness by shaking her hand.

[Brother Adam]

[quote] Even though St. Paul seems to argue that it is somehow according to nature that women should have their heads covered in the assembly, the main point of his teaching is that they should not attend the assembly in attire that would be considered improper in other public places. Even today there are places especially in the Middle or Far East where it is considered improper for a woman to appear in public bareheaded. And I am old enough to recall that, even in California in my younger days, no lady would appear bareheaded in public. This is very much a matter of propriety and modesty, which is essentially relative to local customs. Even Church law accommodates to changes in these matters. In the 1917 Code, canon 1262, 2, required that women have their heads covered when assisting at sacred rites, especially when going to Communion, although that same canon recognized that customs can vary. As far as I have found, the new Code contains no replacement for old canon 1262. Of course, it is expect that the principle holds true: that one should not appear in church in ways that would be shameful in public outside of church.

Wearing shorts or short shorts is another matter following the same principle. In most city areas at present, it would not seem proper to appear at any function that is even somewhat formal in shorts. However, in resort areas or in some places with extreme heat, it is customary for men to wear shorts at semiformal events.

I believe that somewhat the same principle can be applied regarding St. Paul's instructions about women speaking in church. Again modern customs vary. But in many places today, and in most countries a few decades ago, women did not speak at town meetings or government assemblies - in fact, they didn't even have a vote. But in much of the modern western world, women play a greater part in government and other public affairs. So, it is no longer a disgrace for a woman to speak at a public gathering in such places. And this is why Church discipline leaves the matter of the use of women as lectors and eucharistic ministers to the decision of bishops' conferences.

To argue that, since St. Paul's teaching on this matter is conditioned on the customs of the times, all teaching of Scripture is so conditioned, is close to heresy. Modesty is essentially a relative virtue and does depend quite a bit on what people are used to in a given region and time. But to try to apply the same principle to chastity, as many of the neomodernists do, is to fail to realize that the obvious connection of the sexual function with the beginning of new life has not changed since the beginning of the human race. [/quote]

-- From the Catholic Information Network

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 26 2006, 04:27 PM']-- From the Catholic Information Network
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your arguing that what St. Paul said was culturally Motivated?

heresy.