I Need Some Information

[MC Just]

Some one Posted a while back about the New Testament verses that point to the Deutorocanonical books in the Old Testament? I really need the info.

I mean the new testament verse which refer to Maccabees, esther, tobit, judith, ruth..etc..

Can some one post this info.? Pretty Please????

[foundsheep]

ooh oh , let me find those,but I do remember someone posting them.

[MC Just]

Well I did find a page on them by James Akins. But if ya'll have any other goodies on this topic, please post, I'm putting together a Apologetics cd containing lot's of apologetic info, on basically every false accusation and misconception about Catholicism. Rebuttals and and awsers to all the Anti-Catholics questions. I have tons already, but I need more, more I tell you!!! More!!! I'm not selling the cd or burning tons of copies I'm just doing this for my only personal usage. So far I have enough info to drop Protestantism, Mormonism and just about all of the Anti-catholic systems into ruins. But of Course I will Love and be a good example while using the info. This cd is dope.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

sweet Just, thats a good idea. im looking at the site now.

[foundsheep]

Just ,can we get a copy when your done?

[CatholicAndFanatical]

oh wow, that site is weak man..

he quotes scriptures that defend the supremacy of the Pope, then the next sentence is "What does Scriptures say about this?" then goes into his anti-catholic babble, but he just quoted scriptures to support it, why then ask "What does scripture say about this?" when he just said what scriptures say about this and it fits perfectly to Church teachings..he's a loon.

And his arguement about Mary's Perpetual Virginity is nonsense, typical stuff. he cant fathom the fact that Mary HAD to be sinless for her to give birth to God. Why would the God of the Universe want to be born in a woman with sin on her? God hates sin, he wouldnt, he would cleanse her and make her like Eve was before the fall, sinless. Since Mary is the New Eve, who brought life to the world, she is to be like the Old Eve, who brought death to the world, sinless. Why is that so hard to figure out?

Then he goes on to say that Mary could not be an ever-virgin because scriptures say she didnt know joseph UNTIL the first-born..but he left off some key words, Jesus wasnt only the first-born, but the ONLY

BEGOTTEN son, To be a Begotten Son, you are to be the ONLY son. Read my Perpetual Virginity article in the Apologetics Section based off St Aquinas

In talking about Purgatory he refers to a misunderstanding in Christs Judgment, he is correct that after Death there is Judgement, but he is forgetting that 'Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven'. And if one was to die with even a slight blemish of sin on their soul they cannot enter heaven, so who then can enter heaven? Purgatory is not mentioned in Scriptures but another life is. In Matthew 12:32 Sins of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the next. So where is He Talking about? In Heaven all is forgiven and there is no need for forgiveness there, Cant be Hell because you are damned in Hell and there is no chance of coming back. Only a third option can be possible. This Third Option, where we suffer loss, but saved as through fire (1 Cor. 3:15), was named Purgatory. Because we are Purged of our blemish of sins. Like Gold needs to be purified by being heated up to get its blemishs out. We all fall short in many aspects (James 3:2), so Christ has a way to save us if we die with slight sin on our souls.

In speaking of Confession, he totally forgot to mention what Scriptures say "Receive the Holy Spirit, whos sins you forgive, they are forgiven, whos sins you hold bound, will be held bound". Christ said this to the Apostles, not to all of us. Only the ordained are allowed to forgive sins. So did this special gift from God go away when the Apostles died? No, in Acts 1 you see an example of Apostolic Succession, they found a person

to take the place of Judas. Matthias, now is an Apostle, given all the gifts that the Apostles were given by Christ - the Holy Spirit, the authority to distribute the sacrements like anointing, the Eucharist and confession. All the successors have the same Authority that the Apostles have. which was God's plan.

On Icons:

The seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons" (Catechism, 2131).

Does this NOT say that we are against veneration of icons? So why does he dispute like it says we venerate Icons? I think he misread this. Because he goes on to say that we venerate the icons where only God should be venerated. I have no clue why he even went there because we dont worship icons, as you can see my from quote, the Church doesnt teach that.

Im going to email him this in a few. Just thought Id share it with my pham first. This guy took a part of the Catechism and tried to dispute it. His arguements are weak and in one area he would show scripture to support the CHurch then the next sentence he would forget he just showed proof of us then ask "What does scripture say?" - well duh, you just told us what Scriptures say.

Ill keep ya posted.

CatholicAndFanatical

[CatholicAndFanatical]

uh..wrong Thread

DOH!!

sorry guys

[phatcatholic]

check the sola scriptura entry in the reference section. i know there's at least a couple articles that will give u what ur lookin for

[phatcatholic]

mc just,

i think this just about covers it: Deutercanonical References in the New Testament

here are the ones just from the four gospels, but this article has references from just about every book in the New Testament.

Matthew 4:4 Wisdom 16:26

Matthew 4:15 1 Maccabees 5:15

Matthew 5:18 Baruch 4:1

Matthew 5:28 Sirach 9:8

Matthew 5:2ss Sirach 25:7-12

Matthew 5:4 Sirach 48:24

Matthew 6:7 Sirach 7:14

Matthew 6:9 Sirach 23:1, 4

Matthew 6:10 1 Maccabees 3:60

Matthew 6:12 Sirach 28:2

Matthew 6:13 Sirach 33:1

Matthew 6:20 Sirach 29:10s

Matthew 6:23 Sirach 14:10

Matthew 6:33 Wisdom 7:11

Matthew 7:12 Tobit 4:15

Matthew 7:12 Sirach 31:15

Matthew 7:16 Sirach 27:6

Matthew 8:11 Baruch 4:37

Matthew 8:21 Tobit 4:3

Matthew 9:36 Judith 11:19

Matthew 9:38 1 Maccabees 12:17

Matthew 10:16 Sirach 13:17

Matthew 11:14 Sirach 48:10

Matthew 11:22 Judith 16:17

Matthew 11:25 Tobit 7:17

Matthew 11:25 Sirach 51:1

Matthew 11:28 Sirach 24:19

Matthew 11:28 Sirach 51:23

Matthew 11:29 Sirach 6:24s

Matthew 11:29 Sirach 6:28s

Matthew 11:29 Sirach 51:26s

Matthew 12:4 2 Maccabees 10:3

Matthew 12:5 Sirach 40:15

Matthew 13:44 Sirach 20:30s

Matthew 16:18 Wisdom 16:13

Matthew 16:22 1 Maccabees 2:21

Matthew 16:27 Sirach 35:22

Matthew 17:11 Sirach 48:10

Matthew 18:10 Tobit 12:15

Matthew 20:2 Tobit 5:15

Matthew 22:13 Wisdom 17:2

Matthew 23:38 Tobit 14:4

Matthew 24:15 1 Maccabees 1:54

Matthew 24:15 2 Maccabees 8:17

Matthew 24:16 1 Maccabees 2:28

Matthew 25:35 Tobit 4:17

Matthew 25:36 Sirach 7:32-35

Matthew 26:38 Sirach 37:2

Matthew 27:24 Daniel 13:46

Matthew 27:43 Wisdom 2:13

Matthew 27:43 Wisdom 2:18-20

Mark 1:15 Tobit 14:5

Mark 4:5 Sirach 40:15

Mark 4:11 Wisdom 2:22

Mark 5:34 Judith 8:35

Mark 6:49 Wisdom 17:15

Mark 8:37 Sirach 26:14

Mark 9:31 Sirach 2:18

Mark 9:48 Judith 16:17

Mark 10:18 Sirach 4:1

Mark 14:34 Sirach 37:2

Mark 15:29 Wisdom 2:17s

Luke 1:17 Sirach 48:10

Luke 1:19 Tobit 12:15

Luke 1:42 Judith 13:18

Luke 1:52 Sirach 10:14

Luke 2:29 Tobit 11:9

Luke 2:37 Judith 8:6

Luke 6:35 Wisdom 15:1

Luke 7:22 Sirach 48:5

Luke 9:8 Sirach 48:10

Luke 10:17 Tobit 7:17

Luke 10:19 Sirach 11:19

Luke 10:21 Sirach 51:1

Luke 12:19 Tobit 7:10

Luke 12:20 Wisdom 15:8

Luke 13:25 Tobit 14:4

Luke 13:27 1 Maccabees 3:6

Luke 13:29 Baruch 4:37

Luke 14:13 Tobit 2:2

Luke 15:12 1 Maccabees 10:29 [30]

Luke 15:12 Tobit 3:17

Luke 18:7 Sirach 35:22

Luke 19:44 Wisdom 3:7

Luke 21:24 Tobit 14:5

Luke 21:24 Sirach 28:18

Luke 21:25 Wisdom 5:22

Luke 24:4 2 Maccabees 3:26

Luke 24:31 2 Maccabees 3:34

Luke 24:50 Sirach 50:20s

Luke 24:53 Sirach 50:22

John 1:3 Wisdom 9:1

John 3:8 Sirach 16:21

John 3:12 Wisdom 9:16

John 3:12 Wisdom 18:15s

John 3:13 Baruch 3:29

John 3:28 1 Maccabees 9:39

John 3:32 Tobit 4:6

John 4:9 Sirach 50:25s

John 4:48 Wisdom 8:8

John 5:18 Wisdom 2:16

John 6:35 Sirach 24:21

John 7:38 Sirach 24:40, 43[30s]

John 8:44 Wisdom 2:24

John 8:53 Sirach 44:19

John 10:20 Wisdom 5:4

John 10:22 1 Maccabees 4:59

John 14:15 Wisdom 6:18

John 15:9s Wisdom 3:9

John 17:3 Wisdom 15:3

John 20:22 Wisdom 15:11

i hope this helps......pax christi,

phatcatholic

[foundsheep]

Thanks phatcatholic!

[phatcatholic]

np..........i am after all the "king of apologetic articles"

[jasJis]

I wouldn't use the word 'King', but I am impressed by your skills...

:nerd:

[phatcatholic]

hehe, word

[Aloysius]

some of this just shows pointing to the greek copy of the OT, the septuagint, so it may supplement a lil. from scriptureCatholic.com

Matt. 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 - behold, a "virgin" shall conceive. Hebrew - behold, a "young woman" shall conceive.

Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23 / Isaiah 40:3 - make "His paths straight." Hebrew - make "level in the desert a highway."

Matt. 9:13; 12:7 / Hosea 6:6 - I desire "mercy" and not sacrifice. Hebrew - I desire "goodness" and not sacrifice.

Matt. 12:21 / Isaiah 42:4 - in His name will the Gentiles hope (or trust). Hebrew - the isles shall wait for his law.

Matt. 13:15 / Isaiah 6:10 - heart grown dull; eyes have closed; to heal. Hebrew - heart is fat; ears are heavy; eyes are shut; be healed.

Matt. 15:9; Mark 7:7 / Isaiah 29:13 - teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. Hebrew - a commandment of men (not doctrines).

Matt. 21:16 / Psalm 8:2 - out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou has "perfect praise." Hebrew - thou has "established strength."

Luke 3:5-6 / Isaiah 40:4-5 - crooked be made straight, rough ways smooth, shall see salvation. Hebrew - omits these phrases.

Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 61:1 - and recovering of sight to the blind. Hebrew - the opening of prison to them that are bound.

Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 58:6 - to set at liberty those that are oppressed (or bruised). Hebrew - to let the oppressed go free.

John 6:31 / Psalm 78:24 - He gave them "bread" out of heaven to eat. Hebrew - gave them "food" or "grain" from heaven.

John 12:38 / Isaiah 53:1 - who has believed our "report?" Hebrew - who has believed our "message?"

John 12:40 / Isaiah 6:10 - lest they should see with eyes...turn for me to heal them. Hebrew - shut their eyes...and be healed.

Acts 2:19 / Joel 2:30 - blood and fire and "vapor" of smoke. Hebrew - blood and fire and "pillars" or "columns" of smoke.

Acts 2:25-26 / Psalm 16:8 - I saw...tongue rejoiced...dwell in hope.. Hebrew - I have set...glory rejoiced...dwell in safety.

Acts 4:26 / Psalm 2:1 - the rulers "were gathered together." Hebrew - rulers "take counsel together."

Acts 7:14 / Gen. 46:27; Deut. 10:22 - Stephen says "seventy-five" souls went down to Egypt. Hebrew - "seventy" people went.

Acts 7:27-28 / Exodus 2:14 - uses "ruler" and judge; killed the Egyptian "yesterday." Hebrew - uses "prince" and there is no reference to "yesterday."

Acts 7:43 / Amos 5:26-27 - the tent of "Moloch" and star of god of Rephan. Hebrew - "your king," shrine, and star of your god.

Acts 8:33 / Isaiah 53:7-8 - in his humiliation justice was denied him. Hebrew - by oppression...he was taken away.

Acts 13:41 / Habakkuk 1:5 - you "scoffers" and wonder and "perish." Hebrew - you "among the nations," and "be astounded."

Acts 15:17 / Amos 9:12 - the rest (or remnant) of "men." Hebrew - the remnant of "Edom."

Rom. 2:24 / Isaiah 52:5 - the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles. Hebrew - blasphemed (there is no mention of the Gentiles).

Rom. 3:4 / Psalm 51:4 - thou mayest "prevail" (or overcome) when thou art judged. Hebrew - thou might "be clear" when thou judges.

Rom. 3:12 / Psalm 14:1,3 - they "have gone wrong." Hebrew - they are "corrupt" or "filthy."

Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 5:9 - they use their tongues to deceive. Hebrew - they flatter with their tongues. There is no "deceit" language.

Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 140:3 - the venom of "asps" is under their lips. Hebrew - "Adder's" poison is under their lips.

Rom. 3:14 / Psalm 10:7 - whose mouth is full of curses and "bitterness." Hebrew - cursing and "deceit and oppression."

Rom. 9:17 / Exodus 9:16 - my power "in you"; my name may be "proclaimed." Hebrew - show "thee"; may name might be "declared."

Rom. 9:25 / Hosea 2:23 - I will call my people; I will call my beloved. Hebrew - I will have mercy (love versus mercy).

Rom. 9:27 / Isaiah 10:22 - only a remnant of them "will be saved." Hebrew - only a remnant of them "will return."

Rom. 9:29 / Isaiah 1:9 - had not left us "children." Hebrew - Jehova had left us a "very small remnant."

Rom. 9:33; 10:11; 1 Peter 2:6 / Isaiah 28:16 - he who believes will not be "put to shame." Hebrew - shall not be "in haste."

Rom. 10:18 / Psalm 19:4 - their "voice" has gone out. Hebrew - their "line" is gone out.

Rom. 10:20 / Isaiah 65:1 - I have "shown myself" to those who did not ask for me. Hebrew - I am "inquired of" by them.

Rom. 10:21 / Isaiah 65:2 - a "disobedient and contrary" people. Hebrew - a "rebellious" people.

Rom. 11:9-10 / Psalm 69:22-23 - "pitfall" and "retribution" and "bend their backs." Hebrew - "trap" and "make their loins shake."

Rom. 11:26 / Isaiah 59:20 - will banish "ungodliness." Hebrew - turn from "transgression."

Rom. 11:27 / Isaiah 27:9 - when I take away their sins. Hebrew - this is all the fruit of taking away his sin.

Rom. 11:34; 1 Cor. 2:16 / Isaiah 40:13 -the "mind" of the Lord; His "counselor." Hebrew - "spirit" of the Lord; "taught" Him.

Rom. 12:20 / Prov. 25:21 - feed him and give him to drink. Hebrew - give him "bread" to eat and "water" to drink.

Rom. 15:12 / Isaiah 11:10 - the root of Jesse..."to rule the Gentiles." Hebrew - stands for an ensign. There is nothing about the Gentiles.

Rom. 15:21 / Isaiah 52:15 - been told "of him"; heard "of him." Hebrew - does not mention "him" (the object of the prophecy).

1 Cor. 1:19 / Isaiah 29:14 - "I will destroy" the wisdom of the wise. Hebrew - wisdom of their wise men "shall perish."

1 Cor. 5:13 / Deut. 17:7 - remove the "wicked person." Hebrew - purge the "evil." This is more generic evil in the MT.

1 Cor. 15:55 / Hosea 13:14 - O death, where is thy "sting?" Hebrew - O death, where are your "plagues?"

2 Cor. 4:13 / Psalm 116:10 - I believed and so I spoke (past tense). Hebrew - I believe, for I will speak (future tense).

2 Cor. 6:2 / Isaiah 49:8 - I have "listened" to you. Hebrew - I have "answered" you.

Gal. 3:10 / Deut. 27:26 - cursed be every one who does not "abide" by all things. Hebrew - does not "confirm" the words.

Gal. 3:13 / Deut. 21:23 - cursed is everyone who hangs on a "tree." Hebrew - a hanged man is accursed. The word "tree" does not follow.

Gal. 4:27 / Isaiah 54:1 - "rejoice" and "break forth and shout." Hebrew - "sing" and "break forth into singing."

2 Tim. 2:19 / Num. 16:5 - The Lord "knows" those who are His. Hebrew - God will "show" who are His.

Heb. 1:6 / Deut. 32:43 - let all the angels of God worship Him. Hebrew - the Masoretic text omits this phrase from Deut. 32:43.

Heb. 1:12 / Psalm 102:25 - like a "mantle" ... "roll them"... "will be changed." Hebrew - "raiment"... "change"..."pass away."

Heb. 2:7 / Psalm 8:5 - thou has made Him a little "lower than angels." Hebrew - made Him but a little "lower than God."

Heb. 2:12 / Psalm 22:22 - I will " sing" thy praise. Hebrew - I will praise thee. The LXX and most NTs (but not the RSV) have "sing."

Heb. 2:13 / Isaiah 8:17 - I will "put my trust in Him." Hebrew - I will "look for Him."

Heb. 3:15 / Psalm 95:8 - do not harden your hearts as "in the rebellion." Hebrew - harden not your hearts "as at Meribah."

Heb. 3:15; 4:7 / Psalm 95:7 - when you hear His voice do not harden not your hearts. Hebrew - oh that you would hear His voice!

Heb. 8:9-10 / Jer. 31:32-33 - (nothing about husband); laws into their mind. Hebrew - I was a husband; law in their inward parts

Heb. 9:28 / Isaiah 10:22 - "to save those" who are eagerly awaiting for Him. Hebrew - a remnant of them "shall return."

Heb. 10:5 / Psalm 40:6 - "but a body hast thou prepared for me." Hebrew - "mine ears hast thou opened."

Heb. 10:38 / Hab. 2:3-4 - if he shrinks (or draws) back, my soul shall have no pleasure. Hebrew - his soul is puffed up, not upright.

Heb. 11:5 / Gen. 5:24 - Enoch was not "found." Hebrew - Enoch was "not."

Heb. 11:21 / Gen. 47:31 - Israel, bowing "over the head of his staff." Hebrew - there is nothing about bowing over the head of his staff.

Heb. 12:6 / Prov. 3:12 - He chastises every son whom He receives. Hebrew - even as a father the son in whom he delights.

Heb. 13:6 / Psalm 118:6 - the Lord "is my helper." Hebrew - Jehova "is on my side." The LXX and the NT are identical.

James 4:6 / Prov. 3:34 - God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Hebrew - He scoffs at scoffers and gives grace to the lowly.

1 Peter 1:24 / Isaiah 40:6 - all its "glory" like the flower. Hebrew - all the "goodliness" as the flower.

1 Pet. 2:9 / Exodus 19:6 - you are a "royal priesthood." Hebrew - you shall be to me a "kingdom of priests."

1 Pet. 2:9 / Isaiah 43:21 - God's own people...who called you out of darkness. Heb. - which I formed myself. These are different actions.

1 Pet. 2:22 / Isaiah 53:9 - he "committed no sin." Hebrew - he "had done no violence."

1 Pet. 4:18 / Prov. 11:31 - if a righteous man "is scarcely saved." Hebrew - if the righteous "is recompensed."

1 Pet. 5:5 / Prov. 3:34 - God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Hebrew - He scoffs at scoffers and gives grace to lowly.

2 Tim. 3:16 - the Scriptures Jesus and the apostles used were primarily from the Septuagint which included the deuterocanonical texts that most Protestant churches reject.

Isaiah 11:2 - this verse describes the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but the seventh gift, "piety," is only found in the Septuagint.