Tindomiel Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 23 2006, 07:30 AM']For as deeply as some people believe in evolution and the explanation of events in the Bible as false (it wasn't a world wide flood, it was a story), frankly, you are only helping prove my position. You've got nothing. You may think its a joke, but it really isn't. If you can prove that all of the events of the Bible were not historic, but had mythological or scientific explanations only, I"ll become an athiest. If Genesis and the flood didn't happen, then why would we assert that any of them happened? There is no reasonable explanation to. The resurrection for instance, should have a plausible explanation, it didn't really happen, but it is a myth-story, that teaches us truths about God, right? [right][snapback]918801[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I guess, for me, one of the biggest arguments in favor of miracles is that they [i]do[/i] go against common experience. I mean, any serious person today would be an idiot to try to convince others of the truth of miracles [i]unless they really did happen[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 I guess when it comes down to it, the question here as well is, where do you draw the line. Creation did not happen. The flood did not happen...where do you stop and say, hey, we can't keep rationalizing this away. If science could prove an evolutionary origin, and disproves the ability of dead organisms to be regenerated back to life after three days, why take one and throw the other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Mar 23 2006, 10:02 AM']God being the author and creator of all things established the laws of nature and science. Why can we not consider that even in the natural explanations of certain events God wrought a miracle? Isn't the very fact that God holds all things together and upholds existence a miracle, itself? [right][snapback]918923[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 23 2006, 06:52 PM']I guess when it comes down to it, the question here as well is, where do you draw the line. [right][snapback]919617[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You draw the line wherever the Church draws the line. If something is within the bounds of legitimate orthodoxy, then it's in the bounds of legitimate orthodoxy, whether you happen to agree or not. If it's not, then it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpamericanka Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Brother Adam, just curious, do you think that all theories of evolution are wrong? I don’t believe in total evolution…aka…I don’t believe that the human race came from apes. However, this doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in development and natural adaptation to the environment (e.g. the peppered moth) I do believe that the whole world is guided by God’s hand, and I think that’s what counts Also, what is your definition of a miracle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='jpamericanka' date='Mar 23 2006, 06:42 PM']Brother Adam, just curious, do you think that all theories of evolution are wrong? I don’t believe in total evolution…aka…I don’t believe that the human race came from apes. However, this doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in development and natural adaptation to the environment (e.g. the peppered moth) I do believe that the whole world is guided by God’s hand, and I think that’s what counts Also, what is your definition of a miracle? [right][snapback]919647[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I've talked about this many times before, but I'd still be happy to answer. I reject evolution as an explanation for the origin of life. To put it simply, I see no credible, reasonable evidence for macro-evolution. I have no qualms with the idea that if a human moves south to the equator his skin may darken over time, ie. micro-evolution. But micro-evolution really isn't evolution. I don't believe one species will ever turn into another species. Thus I believe in a special creation, and that all life did not come from a single celled organism. A miracle is something that is a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God, something that is not explanable through natural law. Such as the stigmata of St. Pio. There is no scientific explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpamericanka Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 thanks for the clarification. I must say, i'd have to agree with you. While the Church dosen't blatently go against the theory of micro evolution, It just seems to demote God's creation to be saying that the whole world came from a single cell. I don't know, just something about it. Miracles though, i think they can't be completely explained by science, but that science can support them...e.g. the flood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='jpamericanka' date='Mar 23 2006, 07:19 PM']thanks for the clarification. I must say, i'd have to agree with you. While the Church dosen't blatently go against the theory of micro evolution, It just seems to demote God's creation to be saying that the whole world came from a single cell. I don't know, just something about it. Miracles though, i think they can't be completely explained by science, but that science can support them...e.g. the flood [right][snapback]919678[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Those of us who think like we do are very few and far between on phatmass. I'm attacked often for this view by many members of phatmass, including moderators, so you may not want to say that too loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 If you're tired of being victimized for holding antiquated views, I hear the Southern Baptists are always taking converts. I think you'd fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='Snarf' date='Mar 23 2006, 07:54 PM']If you're tired of being victimized for holding antiquated views, I hear the Southern Baptists are always taking converts. I think you'd fit right in. [right][snapback]919700[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Since you are incapable of separating the person from the issue, you lose all credibility, and with it, whatever position you hold. I don't know what kind of insecurities you suffer from that you feel the need to attack others that believe differently than yourself, but hopefully with time, prayer, and possibly counseling, you will be able to grow out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 That's wishful thinking if I ever heard it. You don't people being blunt, so you assume that allows you to ignore them. Riiiiiiight. No wonder you're afraid of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 [quote name='Snarf' date='Mar 23 2006, 09:04 PM']That's wishful thinking if I ever heard it. You don't people being blunt, so you assume that allows you to ignore them. Riiiiiiight. No wonder you're afraid of science. [right][snapback]919790[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This has gotten way past old and boring. You've offered nothing of any value, and can at this point be considered little more than a troll. You've been given every oppertunity to offer meaningful, apologetic insight, but have taken little care to do so, and certianly haven't bothered to stop to hear what anyone is saying. You've ignored a great deal of what has been posted, and only seem satisfied if you are attacking someone. I've had more meaningful dialogue with my little brother helping him with his 'mold' science project than what you have bothered to offer. It is wishful thinking if you believe anything you have said so far has any merit. There are several people on these threads that have offered dialogue of substance, who believe in evolution, and you could certianly take lessons from them (peach_cube would be an example). I really don't have any more time for your childish responses. When you decide to grow up, please come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I'll post this over here, but I posted it in the flood thread also.... Is there an a priori proof for miracles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Adam, you're internalizing this way too much and you seem to take it way too seriously. That is not my problem. If I haven't provided substance, it's because you've not given me anything to respond to. if I wanted to be vicious or overly derisive, I think you'd know. The truth remains that there is no good reason for a Catholic to believe in Creationism when the scientific evidence is so overwhelmingly in favor of evolution and the Church allows to side with it. What you're doing is avoiding dialogue completely by feigning offense at the fact that I'm not going to baby your ideas as if they hold water. If you think you can provide some proof or evidence that opposes evolution, please present it. So far, all you've done is just whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Adam please define your version of creationism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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