rkwright Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I read somewhere that in one of Clement of Rome's early writings he stated something to the effect about how the Church is ONLY continued through proper apostolic sucession. Apperently whoever he was writing to had instilled their own priest in the area and they were being scorned by it. Anyone know which of his letters says this? And maybe a chapter?? His letters are pretty long and I'm not too keen on reading them all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 ahh n\m I found it.... this is some really interesting stuff, I wonder how protestants react to what Clement was saying around 90AD?! [quote]1Clem 44:1 And our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife over the name of the bishop's office. 1Clem 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed to their ministration. Those therefore who were appointed by them, or afterward by other men of repute with the consent of the whole Church, and have ministered unblamably to the flock of Christ in lowliness of mind, peacefully and with all modesty, and for long time have borne a good report with all these men we consider to be unjustly thrust out from their ministration. 1Clem 44:3 For it will be no light sin for us, if we thrust out those who have offered the gifts of the bishop's office unblamably and holily. 1Clem 44:4 Blessed are those presbyters who have gone before, seeing that their departure was fruitful and ripe: for they have no fear lest any one should remove them from their appointed place. 1Clem 44:5 For we see that ye have displaced certain persons, though they were living honorably, from the ministration which had been respected by them blamelessly.[/quote] And... [quote]1Clem 46:9 Your division hath perverted many; it hath brought many to despair, many to doubting, and all of us to sorrow. And your sedition still continueth.[/quote] A few more... [quote]1Clem 47:5 But now mark ye, who they are that have perverted you and diminished the glory of your renowned love for the brotherhood. 1Clem 47:6 It is shameful, dearly beloved, yes, utterly shameful and unworthy of your conduct in Christ, that it should be reported that the very steadfast and ancient Church of the Corinthians, for the sake of one or two persons, maketh sedition against its presbyters. 1Clem 47:7 And this report hath reached not only us, but them also which differ from us, so that ye even heap blasphemies on the Name of the Lord by reason of your folly, and moreover create peril for yourselves.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 rock on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 amazing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 I was in a discussion with some protestants who liked to claim that the early church is not the same as the Catholic church, that those early Christians did not believe the same thing as Catholics today do. I often ask them to put a date on when the the true christians stopped and this 'evil' Catholic Church came about. And its normally either in the 300's or like 1500's. And then we look to what Clement (and the other Church fathers) were saying and how even this 'true' christianity rejects protestantism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Mar 19 2006, 12:34 PM']I was in a discussion with some protestants who liked to claim that the early church is not the same as the Catholic church, that those early Christians did not believe the same thing as Catholics today do. I often ask them to put a date on when the the true christians stopped and this 'evil' Catholic Church came about. And its normally either in the 300's or like 1500's.[right][snapback]915081[/snapback][/right][/quote] check this out [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=20510"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=20510[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 cool thanks for pointing that out! I think I actually found that at one point here, I seem to have your two .doc files saved on my hard drive already.... Just wondering, how long it take to put all that together?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Mar 19 2006, 03:01 PM']cool thanks for pointing that out! I think I actually found that at one point here, I seem to have your two .doc files saved on my hard drive already.... Just wondering, how long it take to put all that together?! [right][snapback]915153[/snapback][/right] [/quote] well, i got all the quotes from catholic.com, so that part was easy. what was hard was putting it all together and formatting it so that it was easy to read. that part took forever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I love Clement! He is writing as pope admonishing people and expecting to be obeyed and he is. You can see the orderly arrangment of the church already laid out. All while the Apostle John is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jswranch Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 So why exactly, were his epistles not included in sacred scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Seems I recall they were read in churches before the canon was fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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