The Great Flood was a global event

[Desert Walker]

That's true.

You should know that science is not done that way by hardly anyone these days.

If it was I assure you that we would have seen breakthroughs as significant as were the ability to control the flow of electrons was significant to people in the past century.

Have you heard of the "Hutchison Effect?"

The fact of the matter is no one wants to conclude that scientific data points to God's work in our history. I'm just arguing that it is worthwhile to work from such an assumption.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Mar 17 2006, 05:02 PM']Don't you think you've made kind of a grand leap from one statement to the other?
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How is it a leap? Evolutionists don't stop at reinterpreting days, or the flood. They explain away all miracles in the Bible. Once they are no longer miracles, they can deny the supernatural, deny God without trouble. The God of the "Christian evolutionist" (if there is such a thing) is an impassive, disinterested, and unloving God.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 19 2006, 03:19 PM']He called me a communist last week.  It must be the stress of impending fatherhood.


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I implied that your assertions were marxist. And they were.

[Azriel]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:44 PM']How is it a leap? Evolutionists don't stop at reinterpreting days, or the flood. They explain away all miracles in the Bible. Once they are no longer miracles, they can deny the supernatural, deny God without trouble. The God of the "Christian evolutionist" (if there is such a thing) is an impassive, disinterested, and unloving God.
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Hope that blanket statement keeps you warm at night. I am a Christian "evolutionist" ... I don't doubt miracles, or believe that God is impassive or disinterested. Nor, does Cmom, if I may humbly speak for her.

The Church does not require that I be a "creationist - ie. literal interpretation of Genesis"... and quite frankly, I find a lot of beauty in mystery. Creationist or evolutionist - won't know for sure until the last day anyway.

Personally, I know that I'm from Adam and Eve - and how they got there, and how I got here is God's business, not mine.

[Desert Walker]

It's just that the theory of evolution has so little basis in scientific FACT. Because of that I find it a HECK of a lot more sensible to believe, for the most part, the Genesis account.

One of the pillars of theoretical evolution (known more accurately as the "transformist hypothesis") is the idea of the "fossil record." This idea cannot even be confirmed by observation! If there is any record at all preserved in these kinds of rocks it is one of unrelenting extinction of biological diversity; not an increase in such diversity. If you find yourself denying this then you're allowing yourself to be fooled by obstinately held ideas that have been pounded into our minds by intellectuals too proud to admit the exstistence of God.

[indescribable]

wonderfully put azriel.

[peach_cube]

Again, Geology degree here.

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:36 AM']I'll look for the source for this but:

Some time ago the US government did a satellite study of the mid-Atlantic Ridge.  If you were to strip away ALL vegetation and ALL water from the planet's surface the most prominent, anomolous feature on the surface would be the mid-Atlantic Ridge.  It spans, from the north to the south, the entire Atlantic Ocean, from Iceland to the tip of South Africa.  This mountain range snakes past the Horn into the Indian Ocean and finally peters out among the islands of Oceana.

The researchers postulated that it was formed when the orginal crust of the planet cracked.  They considered that the original crust was a completely intact spherical shell surrounding the Earth's interior (no moving tectonic plates in other words).  Some gigantic force cracked open this "shell" which split the single continent of Pangea into two major sections of surface land.[/quote]

The above statement about the spherical shell is not fact and most likely false. Pangaea (proper spelling) Was NOT the original conitinent on Earth. There is extremely strong evidence to support that when it split 65 million years ago the "rip" propogated itself along the fault like unzipping a zipper. Prior to Pangaea there were other continents and the existing continents themselves were around, but not all together.

Cut -- due to the fact that now the rest has no scientific laurels to stand on, since it began with a distortion and false understanding of Geology.
[quote]There is scientific research to be done for the sole purpose of proving the statements of the book of Genesis.  I am firmly convinced that research targeted in such a way would reveal what ACTUALLY has happened in the past, not some atheistic model of events.
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Believe it or not many scientists are not in fact, athiesist. Geology applies the laws of physics, chemistry, much physical engineering to the earth in order to understand it. In fact of the numerous Geologists that I have known only the the young students themselves are athiests. I, in fact, was led out of my unbelief back to catholicism in a large part because of my understanding and love of the sciences. "Truth cannot contradict Truth."

[peach_cube]

[quote name='Desert Walker' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:56 PM']It's just that the theory of evolution has so little basis in scientific FACT.  Because of that I find it a HECK of a lot more sensible to believe, for the most part, the Genesis account.

One of the pillars of theoretical evolution (known more accurately as the "transformist hypothesis") is the idea of the "fossil record."  This idea cannot even be confirmed by observation!  If there is any record at all preserved in these kinds of rocks it is one of unrelenting extinction of biological diversity; not an increase in such diversity.  If you find yourself denying this then you're allowing yourself to be fooled by obstinately held ideas that have been pounded into our minds by intellectuals too proud to admit the exstistence of God.
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Have you ever correlated rock strata? Have you seen you used distinct mineralogical and chemical analysis of said rock strata in order to match up said strata? If you go to Iquazu Falls in Argentina and take a sample of the basalt rock cliffs and then go across the ocean to the Numibian desert and take a sample of the basalt cliffs there, you will find that they are exactly the same. Meaning they formed from the same fissure. You can in fact observe the fossil record. Extinction events put biological diversity vs. geological and astrogeological processes.

Pride indeed. I take offense when something I love is pitted against my God. I also take offense when those with no understanding of the workings of geology declare them false by the workings of my God. Geology is NOT human Evolution. It is the study of the history and natural processes of the Earth. Don't let your hatred for evolution blind you to all science and the good people who work within it.

I am not afraid of Creation. I know that the Earth in its creation is good, Therefore, studying it will lead me to good. The Earth is not here so that when I study it I will be tricked by the rock layers into believing something false.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:33 PM']Hope that blanket statement keeps you warm at night.  I am a Christian "evolutionist" ... I don't doubt miracles, or believe that God is impassive or disinterested.  Nor, does Cmom, if I may humbly speak for her.

The Church does not require that I be a "creationist - ie. literal interpretation of Genesis"... and quite frankly, I find a lot of beauty in mystery.  Creationist or evolutionist - won't know for sure until the last day anyway. 

Personally, I know that I'm from Adam and Eve - and how they got there, and how I got here is God's business, not mine.
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I see no reasonable approach to the logic of an evolutionist that allows you to deny some miracles (the flood, seven days of creation) and uphold others. An atheist is less hypocritical. But that is just my opinion, and that is fine. I have to give more credence to someone who denies all miracles rather than picks and chooses.

edited for spelling.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Brother Adam

[Azriel]

I do not deny 7 days of creation, nor the flood ... nor do I not consider them miracles. But, I remember that 7 days to me, may not be seven days to God. And that these accounts are not necessarily literal.

That's not hypocritical. That is allowing God to be God, and not imposing my limited human understanding on how God works.

[OLAM Dad]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 16 2006, 03:05 PM']I knew the evolutionist would speak up sooner than later. Didn't you know Desert walker, even Jesus is a made up story to blind the masses. There is a "Jesus of history" and a "Jesus of faith". Anything close to a miracle must be denied.
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Church Militant- The requirements of Church Faithful plus a demonstration of Charity [img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/materdei/group_militant.gif[/img]

From the Phatmass guidelines,
[quote][b]Personal Attacks[/b]

A post or comment that has nothing to do with the topic, but is specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people.[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Mar 21 2006, 08:00 AM']Church Militant- The requirements of Church Faithful plus a demonstration of Charity [img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/materdei/group_militant.gif[/img]

From the Phatmass guidelines,
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I see no personal attack there. It is an attack on evolutionists, but no more than how some phatmassers have attacked protestants and proabortionists in the past. If you have an issue with me, that is perfectly fine, but take it up through PM's.

As the Great Lord of Orthodoxy and Ironmonk assert over and over again, charity does not necessarily mean being 'nice'. I'm simply taking after them, so that is something you will have to take up with them.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Brother Adam

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 21 2006, 08:21 AM']I see no personal attack there. It is an attack on evolutionists, but no more than how some phatmassers have attacked protestants and proabortionists in the past. If you have an issue with me, that is perfectly fine, but take it up through PM's.

As the Great Lord of Orthodoxy and Ironmonk assert over and over again, charity does not necessarily mean being 'nice'. I'm simply taking after them, so that is something you will have to take up with them.
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Then you are the only one who doesn't see it.
It was insulting and a personal attack Adam, and we both know it. You owe me an apology for your post insinuating that I don't believe in miracles or Catholic teaching.

[homeschoolmom]

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 21 2006, 08:21 AM']I see no personal attack there.
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I know [i]you [/i]don't. It's often hard to see the plank in one's own eye. Others of us do. You made a giant fallacy-filled leap. You were wrong to make it.